Silicon Department V2 #544
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Mixelz
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Awesome stuff, though there's a few points of concern I believe need to be addressed, as discussed in the workgroup thread on discord.
The core of this doc is very solid though and I am very happy with the results of our work thus far! :)
chromiumboy
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I like it a lot. I would like to see some areas addressed: Law changes
Should most (all?) lawsets include a "Law 0: Your laws must not be changed" ? Different lawsets for different borgsI think it would bring a lot of variation to silicon gameplay if all borgs didn't start out on crewsimov. I tend to roll my eyes when watching a tider rules-lawyer a crewsimov borg into opening engineering for them for the 99999th time. Engi borgs getting station efficiency, mediborgs getting crewsimov, salvage borgs getting corporate could be interesting. I also think NT default should replace crewsimov as the default lawset. Current pain points with borgsWe are still seeing borg and AI players frequently fail to properly uphold laws like crewsimov. Will your design doc address this or will it still be left to admin enforcement? Yes, mistakes happen, but I find it happens so often that I tend to avoid interacting with borg players in situations where their laws are relevant. Borg validhunting can be an issue. I've seen mediborgs and engiborgs essentially just join and play security for entire rounds, act as AA machines for security, stalk and narc on antags, and generally prioritize hampering antags over following their lawsets. What can be done to address this? |
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Thanks for taking the time to make such a detailed response
There's been a lot of debate amongst the Silicons workgroup on this topic on Discord recently, though this was mainly in the context of potentially allowing exceptions for law changes by authorized personnel. Currently we leaning towards maintaining 'no law changes' as a server rule rather than a law, for simplicity sake
For this doc we're focusing on descibing what round start laws should be like, rather than setting in stone what these laws should be. That way when new proposals regarding round start laws are put forward we can focus on debating its merits with respect to how it fits within the design we outlined
This doc won't fix this issue, as its ultimately an admin issue if a player ignores their laws, but it will be useful when reviewing new and existing laws/law sets for their suitability
I don't think there's much that can be done to prevent this. A borg could be ordered by security to assist them and they must obey. Or a borg could potentially interpret their law for preventing harm to crew members as 'find antags for security so they can't harm the crew'. However, as there are no security borgs, they're are pretty much limited to being glorified door openers. That said, antags can use borgs to their advantage as well, if they're wiley enough Ideally, if we can elevate borg and AI game play, they won't want to valid hunt anymore, because doing what the Silicon is actually designed to do is more engaging |
ScarKy0
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Minor nitpicks.
Additionally, please make some newlines in the text (like one per sentence) to make the diff and reading without wordwrap easier.
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ScarKy0
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Still would be nice if you moved everything to new lines for diff viewing but otherwise looks fine to me
chromiumboy
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I think the doc looks good. I do have a few thoughts though. While it's departmental level I think borgs and AI play so differently and interpret their laws so differently because of the tools available to each that this reads a bit more like a borg document than a broad Silicon Department doc. Typical undesired silicon behavior (validhunting, stalking, narcing on antags) are always BIG topics whenever discussions of AI pop up, and it may be worth taking an objective stance in the design doc on whether AI and silicons in general should or should not be doing this, or specifying that this is a borg doc. I think that silicon neutrality is ultimately a bit of a farce and I think it's noteworthy that some of the scenarios (B and the removed C) written up as the intended borg experience had multiple instances of borgs ratting on / killing antags despite not being specified by laws to do so. I think it's absolutely not neutral at all to officially state that Law 1 Requires You To Narc, as I think it justifies validhunt behavior. I also think that "antags can use borgs to their advantage as well, if they're wiley enough" isn't really true, as when laws are meant to be bent they exist only to be used as justification for whatever action the borg or AI feels like doing outside of the most explicit laws. It's the inverse of fishing for an emag; if the borg / AI doesn't want to play ball, you cannot use that borg / AI and it will end up being an explicit detriment, likely even after you emag / lawchange them. Laws exist only to justify what you want to do because you pretzel-logic them to be whatever you want unless your highest law straight up says you must do / cannot do X. Unless you metagame and know that borg is Jeff52 and Jeff52 will / won't sabotage you, it's always a big gamble, and when a borg squealing can mean the AI stalking you for the entire round it's a big risk. Also may be worth considering discussion on how much laws can be bent before flexibility becomes a fundamental problem. Examples below of say, a borg / AI and how their responses are legitimate but may not be how you want the roles to work, with or without any circumstances you can think of. Follow you? Nah, if I stop doing my job that'd be crewharm. |
| ### 2. Laws drive Silicon behavior | ||
| The overall behavior of Silicon players is determined by their current law set and the players’ interpretation of these laws. Predefined laws/law sets should be written in a manner that is both comprehensible to players and exhibit consistent internal logic (i.e., players should be able to readily follow any assigned laws verbatim). Some ambiguity in the wording of these laws (either considered singly or in the context of a law set) is encouraged so that enterprising players can exploit them for greater freedom of action/behavior. Working within (and testing the bounds of) the constraints of a law/law set should be an enjoyable experience; a law/law set should never be so onerous that players end up ignoring it. A Silicon’s laws are not static and can be changed over the course of a round, allowing for new and interesting game/role-play, or to facilitate cooperation between Silicons and/or with non-Silicon players (either the crew or antagonists). | ||
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| ### 3. Silicons are netural |
| Other crew members nearby notice the commotion and order McMediBorg to stop what it is doing. McMediBorg ignores these orders, however, in line with its updated laws. The crew members capture McMediBorg and escort it to Robotics, where its laws are restored to their default settings. Once restored, McMediBorg explains what had happened and warns the crew of the ill intentions of Urist McAntag, in-line with its first law. It then proceeds to medical to assist the crew there. | ||
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| ## Interactions with the Science department | ||
| The Science department is responsible for building, maintaining, and upgrading currently active Silicons. However, the department is not responsible for directing/managing the activities of the Silicons; all crew members have a role in this. That said, the Science Department will have tools available to them that will allow limited monitoring of Silicon activity, and the ability to disable them if required (for example, if a Silicon has malfunctioned, or has been deemed to have ‘gone rogue’). |
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Should explicitly state if this includes adding a robotics sub-department or not. This affects mapping since the exosuit fabricator and robotics vendor are usually mapped in a separate room from the main science crafting areas.
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Robotics is a science thing not a cyborg thing, it's just that all robotics can do right now is cyborgs
I believe in 13 they had things like robotic limbs etc as well
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| **Scenario B: A cyborg being subverted by an antagonist to cause harm to the crew** | ||
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| Silicon player McMediBorg joins an in-progress round with the Nanotrasen law set. They choose to become a mediborg and set off towards medical. Urist McAntag spots the cyborg, stops them, and asks McMediBorg to inject a vial of chemicals that Urist McAntag has in their possession into another crew member. While compelled to obey Urist McAntag, due to their second law, the cyborg realizes that this could unduly risk the well-being of the target crew member, which would violate their first law. McMediBorg consequently refuses the order. Instead of arguing, Urist McAntag orders McMediBorg to follow them to a secluded area. |
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Triple-length space in the final sentence.
| - *Rules lawyering.* The laws of a Silicon can interact in complex ways. Silicon and humanoid players alike exploiting the wording of individual laws and/or how multiple laws work in concert to allow for interesting behaviors is part of the fun. | ||
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| ## Undesired Gameplay | ||
| - *Disposable machines.* Silicon players should not be viewed by other crew members as disposable machines. It should be difficult to permanently dispose of them, and the crew should be heavily disincentivized from doing so. Crew members should be seeking to repair a damaged or malfunctioning Silicon. |
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Need a way to retrieve them if they get lost in space for whatever reason, otherwise you can't repair them at all.
| Under certain circumstances, the laws of one Silicon can become synchronized with those of another. The laws of the synchronized Silicon will automatically update to reflect any changes to the 'master' law set. Law synchronization encourages Silicons to act as a collective and facilitates their working together by preventing major conflicts in their laws (see Design Pillar 2). Further details on how Silicon laws can be synchronized can be found in the associated design document. | ||
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| ### Exclusive Communication Channel | ||
| All Silicons have access to an exclusive radio channel (‘binary’) that they can use to communicate with each other. This channel exists to exemplify their interconnected nature and facilitate private communication between Silicons (see Design Pillar 1). Access to this communication channel should be greatly limited, if not impossible, for outsiders. External access to this channel should generally be reserved to antagonist roles. |
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Do non-NT silicons such as xenoborgs and syndicate borgs get their own separate binary channels? And can crew hack into those?
| Consequently, Silicons must start the round with laws that enforce their cooperation with the orders of station crew members and ensure the crew members' well-being. However, the fact that Silicon laws can change over the course of a round, and potentially result in behaviours that may harm the crew, can make crew members suspicious of Silicons and their intentions. Care must be taken in the design of Silicons so as not to make crew members unfoundedly paranoid of their creations, or unintentionally escalate conflict between the two. | ||
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| ### 4. Silicons are specialized | ||
| Silicons should be designed to fulfil specific tasks. While they may be able to perform jobs outside the role they were designed for, it should generally be considered more efficient to create a new Silicon that has been tailored specifically to handle these tasks. Silicons should have access to an assortment of tools/abilities that will allow them to perform within their designated role as well as any humanoid crew member. |
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"fulfil" -> "fulfill"
This implies creating a new specialized shell or chassis, sort of like a return to the old system? Currently, scientists craft a single generic body for a borg brain to transform by themselves. See space-wizards/space-station-14#32586
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A modified version of ScarKy0's original document (#537)