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very much a Shiny-centric kind of spin to our validation discussion, where we had some interesting use cases about how Shiny, of course, you can set a lot of inputs and make dynamic changes in your UI of whatever table or plot you’re making. But then when you want to actually validate the results of those selections, there were some interesting cases where you might use a different even language in and of itself to do that, such as SAS, to look at how those outputs are being generated. So that was an interesting idea I never really thought about. But it also underscored the importance of, it’s one thing just to do the business logic kind of validation. I talked about my morning session. But you do need that kind of user-centric, dynamic look at what outputs you’re generating and making sure you’re on track with validating those. So I think there’s some opportunity to learn from each other on that side of it, too. And then, actually, you, Phil, you had a great comment about the number of conferences, some of the stigma that R has is a, quote unquote, lack of backward compatibility, which I personally wonder where that’s coming from, especially what BASE are, because they are very rigid to changing. But there are, obviously, things you need to consider with how you manage, say, your package versioning and documenting whenever big changes are occurring there, too. And then trying to think back on whatever parts we talked about. I think we talked about ShinyTest. Oh, yeah. And we also talked about ways to do testing in Shiny, specifically with ShinyTest, too. And there was some interesting new tooling that’s coming out from our friends at the Taurus, it sounds like, coming up very soon with augmenting that with automated reporting and screenshots that we’re going to be eager to see as we go forward with that side of it, too. One last thing, we talked about ShinyMeta and Teal. Yep. And then, yeah, exactly. So then Teal came up quite a bit, as we often see, that’s a great use case to get buy-in from an organization to leverage Shiny in the clinical area. But then you think about how they are approaching creating those reproducible scripts that you can get to, in essence, carry out what you did in the Teal app. And they went away from the ShinyMeta route that, Rosie, who had been at our farm before, that package from Posit actually was born from conversations with some of us with the Shiny team back then. But it never really got as much adoption as I think maybe it was anticipated. So we are interested to see the way Teal conducts this, if that’s a pattern that ends up being more standard in the future, always learning from what’s working well there and maybe where that can go in the validation discussion when you think about teams that say, oh, you did that great analysis in that app, but I need to be able to run that in a month from now or even a year from now, maybe to answer a question. So we do see some intriguing ideas that Teal has pioneered with getting those scripts out there. And last, but certainly not least, there were some questions about how to handle larger data in apps. And myself and others were quick to literally mouth off. DuckDB is a very promising approach so that you can have that within that environment database feature, but yet you’re not overhead of a Postgres or even NoSQL database that often came up, too. But we think DuckDB and Shiny is a great combination for big data analytics that I think will play nicely in Noveltoon in the future.
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So we were talking mostly about package validation during both validation roundtables, and there are companies that they already built both the exploratory and the validated GXP environments, and there are a lot of companies that are just building the GXP environments, and the cycles and the processes vary, and there could be an approach where the validation cycle takes, that happens every six or even every 12 months. However, there is one company that takes more agile and fluid approach where the package validation can be completed in just a few hours, and I think that demonstrates that both speed and compliance can coexist in a proper process. And we discussed that managing the infrastructure actually is a challenge with a lot of packages and a lot of images being created, and that a good approach that can be taken in the future is to create a base image that can be specific per project or specific for a therapeutic area, and this is a container, and Kubernetes seem to be the standard for managing those. And however, container sizing continues to present a technical challenge. What else? We also discussed that the transparency for our packages packs, that this is actually a positive thing, because with SAS you don’t really know, you only know about your own bag that you submitted, but you don’t know about the other bags, and they for sure exist, and with the open source you get access, you see what happens, and you see how those bags are resolved, so we thought that this is actually a good thing. And we also agreed that internal packages, they should follow the same process as external packages, so there needs to be testing, and that actually testing, the tester should be a separate person than the developer. And we also covered a bit the topic of testing, thank you, testing the GenAI outputs, and we concluded that basically there needs to be a code that is reproducible, and this needs to be tested, and this needs to be validated as well. And I think one more thing that was quite interesting is that we don’t have a standard what the validated package means, and that every company basically defines their own way what it means that the package is validated. And regarding also the GenAI principles and validating the outputs, we thought that right now, basically we have to decide on principles regarding the GenAI, because right now we don’t state that, for example, the documentation was generated by the GenAI, and we thought that this would be valuable, because this gives additional context, and it can mean that you also would pay additional extra attention to that part, because you know that this was not generated by the human. And last but not least, we discussed whether AI bot to help evaluate if the test is good, it can be something useful, and it can be used as an extra pair of eyes. There were mixed opinions that yes, this could be useful, however, this can also make the reviewers a bit mindless, because they would rely too much on the advice and the output from the bot. Thank you.
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