Suggestion: Improved text for Rest Offsets

[asherber]

I thought there was a bug in how this plugin was positioning rests, but it turned out that I was just confused about the design.

Although the plugin is called Rest Offsets, the descriptive text in the dialog says 4 = top staff line, 0 = middle staff line, -4 = bottom staff line. This gives the impression that the plugin will perform absolute positioning of rests. (Which, actually, would be nice functionality to have. When I use the Finale Move Rests plugin, I'm always having to count and figure out how many steps to move the rests from where they are to where I want them; it would be nice to be able to say "Put the rests here".)

In fact, the plugin does apply an offset, so that entering 4 will only put the rest on the top line of the staff if it started out on the middle line. But it applies that offset not to the rest's current position, but rather to its default position. Thus if I apply this to a whole rest and specify -6, it will wind up on the bottom line regardless of where it is currently. (Maybe I moved it somewhere previously and now need to move it again.)

From a functionality perspective, this is fine with me. But the name of the plugin and the descriptive text could be improved to better indicate what's going on. A better name might be "Rest Offsets From Default", and the text could indicate that the entered value will be applied against the rest's default value rather than its current value.

cc: @cv-on-hub

[cv-on-hub]

Fair comment @asherber, and renaming the script "Rests Vertical Position" makes sense. But it was never a massive step to assume that "offset" was relative to the default (middle) position! JWChange makes the distinction by offering "relative" or "absolute" values. (I trust that you also read the explanation of floating rests hiding behind the ? button).

It's a messy business working out precise current rest positions and I'll leave that up to Finale's inbuilt Move Rests... plugin. For me if you want the option of moving to an offset relative to CURRENT position then use that one.

I've changed the documentation and the name of the script (and menu item).

[asherber]

@cv-on-hub I think I wasn't clear, and maybe I've made things worse. "Offset" is a fine name, and accurately describes what the plugin does. It's just that the text in the dialog make it seem like it's doing absolute positioning, but it's not.

You say "relative to the default (middle) position", which would also make sense with the dialog text, but that's also not what it does. For a whole note rest, for example, it's relative the the default position on the 4th line, not on the 3rd (middle) line. So +2 to get to the top line, -6 to the bottom line -- not +4 to the top, -4 to the bottom, as the dialog indicates.

I guess I would keep "Offset" in the name but also put "From Default" in there, so it's clear what the offset is being applied to. And similarly, I would suggest changing the text in the dialog so that it doesn't suggest positioning based on the 3rd line.

[cv-on-hub]

Default rest positions are set by the staff manager relative to the top staff line (i.e. the middle line -4) - see attached. It's a trivial step to work out that in this script "offset" relates to "default position" and is absolute. For relative shifts use Finale's Move Rests... plugin. I propose adding this text to finaleplugin.Notes but no other changes to the script:

The offset is measured in "half spaces" where the distance between the top 
and bottom staff lines is 8 half-spaces. So if the default rest position centres 
on the middle staff line, "4" centres on the top staff line and "-4" centres on the bottom one.

This should wrap up Issue #420

[rpatters1]

The default position of floating rests is also affected by layer options and placement of beams over/under rests. It turns out to be non-trivial to figure out the rest position of a floating rest over/under a beam.

[asherber]

Okay, here's my "aha" moment, because I've never had occasion to go into that dialog. Finale says that the default position of the whole rest is -4, but to my long-entrenched way of thinking, I would call it -2. That is, to me, it clings to the bottom of the 4th line; it's not placed in relation to the 3rd line. 

So yes, an offset of -4 positions the rest relative to the bottom staff line -- but for Finale that means the whole rest is actually under the second line, whereas I literally want it under the bottom line and need -6 to get there. Now it all makes sense, in a Finale sort of way.

I now understand what the script is doing, and if nobody else has expressed confusion, then maybe we're done here. But if you're inclined to add a little more explanation to the notes, I would suggest:

The offset is measured in "half spaces" from the rest's default position, where the distance between the top 
and bottom staff lines is 8 half-spaces. So if the default rest position is
on the middle staff line, "4" moves it to the top staff line and "-4" moves it to the bottom one. 
(For a normal 5-line staff, Finale defines the default position of all rests as the middle line.)

[cv-on-hub]

@asherber: that's OK but "moves" suggests, as you originally thought, that the symbol is placed exactly on that line, but the symbols for half, whole and breve rests sit ABOVE the line on which they are "centred". Hence "centres" rather than "moves".

[asherber]

@cv-on-hub I guess it's all how you look at it. What I was trying to convey with the parenthetical is that how Finale views these things is not necessarily how a human does. Finale thinks that the whole rest is on the middle staff line; to the extent that it is, offset of 4 moves it to the top staff line. (In both cases, I think a human would say it's above the designated line.) To me, "centre" is not the right concept, because there's no sense in which the whole rest is centered on the middle line.

But this is all semantics, and I seem to have been the only person confused by it! 😄   So whatever you choose to do is fine by me.