20160508_Trump_meet_the_press.tsv

1	CHUCK TODD	This Sunday, the Republican party coming apart.	0
2	DONALD TRUMP	It really looks like a massive victory.	0
3	CHUCK TODD	Donald Trump wraps up the Republican nomination and effectively tells G.O.P.	0
4	CHUCK TODD	leaders, "It's my party and you can cry if you want to."	0
5	DONALD TRUMP	Our thing, it’s very simple, it’s make America great again.	0
6	CHUCK TODD	My interview with the Republican party's presumptive nominee, Donald Trump.	0
7	CHUCK TODD	Plus, it's a simple fact, divided parties lose elections.	0
8	CHUCK TODD	Republican voters embrace Trump, the Republican leadership says, "No way."	0
9	SPEAKER PAUL RYAN	I'm just not ready to do that at this point.	0
10	CHUCK TODD	Can Donald Trump become the first candidate in more than half a century to win an election without a united party behind him?	0
11	CHUCK TODD	Also, don't look now, but the general election has already begun.	0
12	DONALD TRUMP	I can focus on Hillary.	0
13	DONALD TRUMP	Crooked Hillary.	0
14	SEC. HILLARY CLINTON	He doesn't think much of equal pay for women because, of course, he doesn't think much of women.	0
15	CHUCK TODD	Even S.N.L.	0
16	CHUCK TODD	is looking towards November.	0
17	DANA CARVEY	And now we've landed on the exciting presidential match-up between a godless, liberal Democrat and Hillary Clinton.	0
18	CHUCK TODD	Joining me for insight and analysis this Sunday morning are Eugene Robinson, Pulitzer-Prize-winning columnist for The Washington Post, Andrea Mitchell of NBC News, Matt Bai, national political correspondent for Yahoo News, and Republican strategist and pollster, Kellyanne Conway.	0
19	CHUCK TODD	Welcome to Sunday.	0
20	CHUCK TODD	It's Meet the Press.	0
21	ANNOUNCER	From NBC News in Washington, this is Meet the Press with Chuck Todd.	0
22	CHUCK TODD	Good Sunday morning, happy Mother's Day to all the moms out there watching.	0
23	CHUCK TODD	This may well be this generation's defining moment in American politics, particularly for Republicans.	0
24	CHUCK TODD	The Republican party splitting apart as it turns its back on its new presumptive nominee: Donald Trump.	0
25	CHUCK TODD	What we're witnessing is nothing short of what you might call tissue rejection.	0
26	CHUCK TODD	Conservatives who warn that Trump would ultimately prove he's not one of them, are having their own, "I told you so" moment.	0
27	CHUCK TODD	During the primaries, Trump said he was opposed to raising the minimum wage.	0
28	CHUCK TODD	Now he says he's open to raising it.	0
29	CHUCK TODD	During the primaries, Trump put out a plan lowering taxes on everybody, including the wealthy, now he says he's open to raising taxes for the wealthiest Americans.	0
30	CHUCK TODD	And during the primaries, Trump insisted over and over again he would self-fund his campaign, and now he says he's building a world-class finance organization aimed at raising money for his campaign.	0
31	CHUCK TODD	That, and so much more, has led a long parade of prominent Republicans to say either they can't support Trump or they have to think it over.	0
32	CHUCK TODD	We'll get to my interview with Donald Trump in just a moment, but one thing is clear.	0
33	CHUCK TODD	He begins his campaign as a the presumptive nominee of a party, whose leadership A) didn't want him, and B) is deeply reluctant to rally around him.	0
34	CHUCK TODD	In short, is the Republican party wigging out?	0
35	SYSTEM	(BEGIN TAPE)	0
36	SPEAKER PAUL RYAN	I'm not there right now.	0
37	SPEAKER PAUL RYAN	And I hope to though, and I want to.	0
38	SPEAKER PAUL RYAN	But I think what is required is that we unify this party.	0
39	CHUCK TODD	Donald Trump is facing a rejection from Republican party leaders that is unprecedented in modern politics.	0
40	SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM	I think Donald Trump's a kind of man.	0
41	SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM	I'm not going to support somebody I don't believe is a reliable Republican conservative.	0
42	CHUCK TODD	Nebraska senator Ben Sasse says, "A third-party candidate is the only solution."	0
43	CHUCK TODD	Quote, "This is America.	0
44	CHUCK TODD	If both choices stink, we reject them and go bigger."	0
45	CHUCK TODD	The only two living Republican presidents, both Bushes, are also no's, refusing to endorse Trump and skipping the Republican Convention after a campaign of insults to Jeb.	0
46	DONALD TRUMP	He’s low energy.	0
47	DONALD TRUMP	Let's be sure.	0
48	CHUCK TODD	The 2012 nominee, also a no, is being courted to run as an independent.	0
49	CHUCK TODD	So far, Mitt Romney is not interested.	0
50	CHUCK TODD	The 2008 nominee, with a primary in August, is a reluctant yes, but also staying away from Cleveland in July.	0
51	SEN. JOHN MCCAIN	If there is a Donald Trump at the top of the ticket, I have no doubt that this may be the race of my life.	0
52	CHUCK TODD	Even the chair of the convention is sending a signal to donors and voters that it's okay to stay on the bench.	0
53	SPEAKER PAUL RYAN	I think the bulk of the burden on unifying the party will have to come from our presumptive nominee.	0
54	DONALD TRUMP	I didn't get Paul Ryan.	0
55	DONALD TRUMP	I don't know what happened.	0
56	DONALD TRUMP	I don't know.	0
57	DONALD TRUMP	All of a sudden, he wants to be cute.	0
58	DONALD TRUMP	But, you know, we'll see.	0
59	CHUCK TODD	With a meeting planned in Washington next week, the chill could thaw.	0
60	CHUCK TODD	And some Trump skeptics are coming around, including Rick Perry, who said this just months ago:	0
61	GOV. RICK PERRY	Donald Trump's candidacy is a cancer on conservatism.	0
62	CHUCK TODD	But Trump begins the general election as a scarred candidate, trailing by 23 points among women, and leading by just three points among men.	0
63	SEC. HILLARY CLINTON	He doesn't think much of equal pay for women because, of course, he doesn't think much of women, it turns out.	0
64	CHUCK TODD	But for Trump, the attacks are going to be personal.	0
65	DONALD TRUMP	And she was a total enabler.	0
66	DONALD TRUMP	She would go after these women and destroy their lives.	0
67	DONALD TRUMP	I mean, have you ever read what Hillary Clinton did to the women that Bill Clinton had affairs with?	0
68	DONALD TRUMP	And they're going after me with women?	0
69	DONALD TRUMP	Give me a break, folks.	0
70	SYSTEM	(END TAPE)	0
71	CHUCK TODD	Yesterday I spoke with Mr. Trump.	0
72	CHUCK TODD	And I began by asking if he was surprised to have already wrapped up the Republican nomination.	0
73	SYSTEM	(BEGIN TAPE)	0
74	DONALD TRUMP	Well, I thought I'd do it.	0
75	DONALD TRUMP	I didn't know I was going to do it this early.	0
76	DONALD TRUMP	I assumed that Hillary would be watching me, as opposed to me watching Hillary.	0
77	DONALD TRUMP	So that's good.	0
78	DONALD TRUMP	And it's going to be an interesting things, because Bernie Sanders is not being treated fairly.	0
79	DONALD TRUMP	Not being treated fairly.	0
80	DONALD TRUMP	You know, it's a rigged system against him also.	0
81	DONALD TRUMP	I'm no Bernie fan, I can tell you that.	0
82	DONALD TRUMP	But it is a rigged system.	0
83	CHUCK TODD	Do you believe the system is-- the Republican system was pretty rigged too, even though you're winning it?	0
84	DONALD TRUMP	Yeah, totally rigged.	0
85	DONALD TRUMP	It was totally rigged.	0
86	DONALD TRUMP	And it was only that I was winning by so much.	0
87	DONALD TRUMP	I was winning in landslides every week.	0
88	DONALD TRUMP	And if I weren't, I wouldn't have been able to do it, because it was dictated by the bosses.	0
89	DONALD TRUMP	But you know what, I'm happy with it.	0
90	DONALD TRUMP	It's like a boxer.	0
91	DONALD TRUMP	You have to go and you have to knock out the opponent.	0
92	DONALD TRUMP	We won so many landslide states, especially the last seven or eight, that you know, there was nothing much they could do about it.	0
93	DONALD TRUMP	But it's not a good system--	0
94	CHUCK TODD	You know, you complained about the system a lot.	0
95	CHUCK TODD	I'm curious, are you now more open to same-day voter registration, allowing independents to vote in any primary they want?	0
96	CHUCK TODD	Are you going to be somebody that's going to advocate for those positions now, to make it easier to vote, since your voters had a hard time?	0
97	DONALD TRUMP	Well, you can't expand the party that way.	0
98	DONALD TRUMP	And you know, we've done it both ways.	0
99	DONALD TRUMP	I've always done better when independents could cross over, and frankly when Democrats could cross over.	0
100	DONALD TRUMP	You know, in New York when we were doing the voting, they interviewed -- a lot of people interviewed the people at the voting booths, that you know, manned the voting booths.	0
101	DONALD TRUMP	And they were saying that they've never seen anything like it--	0
102	CHUCK TODD	Well, they banned same day-- you realize that in New York, had there been same day voter registration those people could have voted.	0
103	CHUCK TODD	So are you for that?	0
104	DONALD TRUMP	Well, I'll tell you what.	0
105	DONALD TRUMP	But they said that they've never seen so many Democrats wanting to vote for Trump.	0
106	DONALD TRUMP	They were by the thousands.	0
107	DONALD TRUMP	And I will say this.	0
108	DONALD TRUMP	On Election Day, we're going to do very well in New York.	0
109	DONALD TRUMP	But the people were saying to the press that they'd never seen anything like it.	0
110	DONALD TRUMP	They've been there for 30 and 40 years doing this kind of stuff.	0
111	CHUCK TODD	But you're not-- but I'm just curious--	0
112	DONALD TRUMP	--where Democrats are going over.	0
113	CHUCK TODD	--do you want to see the voting laws changed to make it easier to vote?	0
114	DONALD TRUMP	I want to see voting laws so that people that are citizens can vote.	0
115	DONALD TRUMP	Not so people that can walk off the street and can vote, or so that illegal immigrants can vote--	0
116	CHUCK TODD	So you're not for same-day voter registration?	0
117	DONALD TRUMP	No, no.	0
118	DONALD TRUMP	I want to make the voting laws so that people that-- it doesn't make any difference how they do it.	0
119	DONALD TRUMP	But I don't think people should sneak in through the cracks.	0
120	DONALD TRUMP	You have to have -- And whether that's an ID or any way you want to do it.	0
121	DONALD TRUMP	But you have to be a citizen to vote.	0
122	CHUCK TODD	Well, of course.	0
123	CHUCK TODD	That is the law as it stands already.	0
124	CHUCK TODD	Let me ask--	0
125	DONALD TRUMP	No, it's not.	0
126	DONALD TRUMP	I mean, you have places where people just walk in and vote.	0
127	CHUCK TODD	We don't have a lot of time.	0
128	CHUCK TODD	I want to move on here.	0
129	CHUCK TODD	Let me talk about the Paul Ryan situation.	0
130	CHUCK TODD	Frankly, you seem pretty annoyed by this.	0
131	CHUCK TODD	Are you?	0
132	DONALD TRUMP	No.	0
133	DONALD TRUMP	It's just the way it is.	0
134	DONALD TRUMP	I don't think it hurts me at all.	0
135	DONALD TRUMP	And I'd like to have his support, but if he doesn't want to support me that's fine.	0
136	DONALD TRUMP	And we have to go about it.	0
137	DONALD TRUMP	Look, I'm going to get millions and millions of votes more than the Republicans would have gotten.	0
138	DONALD TRUMP	If you look at the numbers, I think right now, or I will be this week or next week, in the history of the Republican Party, nobody has ever gotten so many votes as I have.	0
139	DONALD TRUMP	I've beaten Eisenhower and Nixon and Reagan and everybody.	0
140	DONALD TRUMP	And we have a tremendous group of people that's voting.	0
141	DONALD TRUMP	And remember, I have a lot of states left.	0
142	DONALD TRUMP	And if you look at the percentages I'm winning, I mean, I got 62 percent in New York, and I got these massive numbers all over.	0
143	DONALD TRUMP	And I have three candidates.	0
144	DONALD TRUMP	I was having to beat three candidates.	0
145	DONALD TRUMP	You know, nobody ever mentions that, that you get 62 percent, but it's not against just one person.	0
146	DONALD TRUMP	It's against, in this case, three.	0
147	DONALD TRUMP	And during the process--	0
148	CHUCK TODD	And so your case to Paul Ryan is, "Hey, the voters have decided.	0
149	CHUCK TODD	Get on board."	0
150	DONALD TRUMP	Well, I would say that's true.	0
151	DONALD TRUMP	I mean, to be honest.	0
152	DONALD TRUMP	I like Paul Ryan.	0
153	DONALD TRUMP	I think he's a very good guy.	0
154	DONALD TRUMP	He called me three weeks ago, and he was so supportive.	0
155	DONALD TRUMP	It was amazing.	0
156	DONALD TRUMP	And I never thought a thing like this.	0
157	DONALD TRUMP	I got blindsided by this--	0
158	CHUCK TODD	So you're stunned.	0
159	CHUCK TODD	You feel blindsided by him?	0
160	DONALD TRUMP	No, I would say stunned is a little bit-- it's politics.	0
161	DONALD TRUMP	I'm never stunned by anything that happens in politics.	0
162	DONALD TRUMP	But, so I’m not -- yeah, I was blindsided a little bit, because he spoke to me three weeks ago, and it was a very nice call, a very encouraging call.	0
163	DONALD TRUMP	I was doing well.	0
164	DONALD TRUMP	He called me, I think, to congratulate me about New York, 'cause I won by massive numbers.	0
165	DONALD TRUMP	I won everything.	0
166	DONALD TRUMP	And then the next week, I won the five states in a row by all landslide numbers.	0
167	DONALD TRUMP	And he called me to congratulate me.	0
168	DONALD TRUMP	Couldn't have been nicer.	0
169	DONALD TRUMP	And again, I have a nice relationship with him.	0
170	DONALD TRUMP	Don't know him well.	0
171	DONALD TRUMP	Met him one time.	0
172	DONALD TRUMP	But have a nice relationship with him.	0
173	DONALD TRUMP	And then all of a sudden, he gets on and he does this number.	0
174	DONALD TRUMP	So I'm not exactly sure what he has in mind.	0
175	DONALD TRUMP	But that's okay--	0
176	CHUCK TODD	If he can't endorse you, do you think he should be chair of the Convention?	0
177	DONALD TRUMP	I don't want to mention now.	0
178	DONALD TRUMP	I'll see after.	0
179	DONALD TRUMP	I will give you a very solid answer, if that happens, about one minute after that happens.	0
180	DONALD TRUMP	Okay?	0
181	DONALD TRUMP	But there's no reason to give it right now.	0
182	DONALD TRUMP	But I'll be very quick with the answer.	0
183	DONALD TRUMP	Let's see what happens--	0
184	CHUCK TODD	Well, it sounds like I know what the answer is, but you don't want to say it yet.	0
185	CHUCK TODD	You don't want to sound-- you're not here-- you don't want to issue threats.	0
186	DONALD TRUMP	No, inappropriate.	0
187	DONALD TRUMP	We’ll see.	0
188	CHUCK TODD	--you're not going to issue a public threat?	0
189	DONALD TRUMP	I don't think that's going to happen.	0
190	DONALD TRUMP	You know, the party's come together.	0
191	DONALD TRUMP	I have tremendous numbers of endorsements.	0
192	DONALD TRUMP	I'm never going to get Romney's endorsement.	0
193	DONALD TRUMP	He choked.	0
194	DONALD TRUMP	He blew the last election.	0
195	DONALD TRUMP	I'm never going to get that.	0
196	DONALD TRUMP	I'm never going to get Bush's election.	0
197	DONALD TRUMP	You know, he thought I was too rough on him.	0
198	DONALD TRUMP	He doesn't say that he spent $10 million on negative ads.	0
199	DONALD TRUMP	But Jeb Bush, I was tough on him, and he was trying to be tough on me, but he's not a very tough guy.	0
200	DONALD TRUMP	But you know, I was very tough on him.	0
201	DONALD TRUMP	But he spent $10 million or $12 million on negative ads on me.	0
202	DONALD TRUMP	So why shouldn’t I be?	0
203	DONALD TRUMP	The fact is--	0
204	CHUCK TODD	You know--	0
205	DONALD TRUMP	--and by the way, Chuck.	0
206	DONALD TRUMP	Very important.	0
207	DONALD TRUMP	He signed a pledge.	0
208	DONALD TRUMP	He pledged that he would support the nominee.	0
209	DONALD TRUMP	And so did this lightweight, Lindsey Graham.	0
210	DONALD TRUMP	He pledged that he would support the nominee.	0
211	DONALD TRUMP	They ran.	0
212	DONALD TRUMP	They lost--	0
213	CHUCK TODD	You threatened to back away from that pledge a lot, for various reasons--	0
214	DONALD TRUMP	No, no, no.	0
215	DONALD TRUMP	I didn't back away.	0
216	DONALD TRUMP	In fact, one of the reasons I didn't back away is that I happen to be, despite what a few people think, I happen to be a very honorable guy.	0
217	DONALD TRUMP	I signed a pledge.	0
218	DONALD TRUMP	And that's a binding pledge.	0
219	DONALD TRUMP	You know, I heard, "It's not binding."	0
220	DONALD TRUMP	Well, it is a binding pledge.	0
221	DONALD TRUMP	I have the best lawyers in the world.	0
222	DONALD TRUMP	They say it's an absolutely binding pledge.	0
223	DONALD TRUMP	And I intended it to be binding.	0
224	CHUCK TODD	Well, it was very binding for South Carolina.	0
225	CHUCK TODD	That was the only way to get on the ballot.	0
226	DONALD TRUMP	Well, remember – Chuck, Chuck, remember this.	0
227	DONALD TRUMP	Jeb Bush signed a pledge.	0
228	DONALD TRUMP	A binding pledge.	0
229	DONALD TRUMP	Lindsey Graham signed a binding pledge that they would endorse.	0
230	DONALD TRUMP	That they would support and endorse.	0
231	DONALD TRUMP	That's what it says.	0
232	DONALD TRUMP	Now they're breaking.	0
233	DONALD TRUMP	You know, that's a question of honor.	0
234	DONALD TRUMP	They are not honorable people when they do that.	0
235	DONALD TRUMP	Because they're going against the pledge--	0
236	CHUCK TODD	Let me ask you about Mitt Romney.	0
237	CHUCK TODD	As you know, there's chatter that he's being recruited to run as an independent.	0
238	CHUCK TODD	I know you say you don't care that you have his support.	0
239	CHUCK TODD	But if you could have a sit-down with Mitt Romney, you know, he came to you as sort of a penitent man.	0
240	CHUCK TODD	You know, he came to you when he was wanting your endorsement.	0
241	CHUCK TODD	Have you thought about traveling to him and seeing if you can sort of calm the waters with him at all?	0
242	CHUCK TODD	And if you did, what would you say to him?	0
243	DONALD TRUMP	Well, here's the story.	0
244	DONALD TRUMP	I helped Mitt a lot.	0
245	DONALD TRUMP	I raised a lot of money for him.	0
246	DONALD TRUMP	I ruined the carpet in my apartments, I had so many people come.	0
247	DONALD TRUMP	We actually had to have two fundraisers because there were so many people, for his wife, who is a fantastic woman, by the way.	0
248	DONALD TRUMP	I had these fundraisers in my apartment.	0
249	DONALD TRUMP	They called me for help.	0
250	DONALD TRUMP	And I did robocalls.	0
251	DONALD TRUMP	I did speeches for him.	0
252	DONALD TRUMP	I did everything during the primary season.	0
253	DONALD TRUMP	During the election season, for some reason, they should have used me in Florida.	0
254	DONALD TRUMP	He would have won Florida.	0
255	DONALD TRUMP	But they had this, you know, campaign manager, Stewart whatever, who didn't like Donald Trump.	0
256	DONALD TRUMP	He thought Donald Trump was too tough and too controversial, and don't use him.	0
257	DONALD TRUMP	So they didn't use me, and that was okay.	0
258	DONALD TRUMP	When it came down to the convention, I wasn't a part of the convention, and that was okay.	0
259	DONALD TRUMP	What happened is I was rough on Mitt because I didn't think they treated me properly.	0
260	DONALD TRUMP	I helped him, really helped him.	0
261	DONALD TRUMP	Gave him a lot of money.	0
262	DONALD TRUMP	Helped him with robocalls.	0
263	DONALD TRUMP	Every single robocall I made, he won that state.	0
264	DONALD TRUMP	Every single speech I made, he won the state, in terms of the primaries.	0
265	DONALD TRUMP	When it came time to the general election, I waited for the call.	0
266	DONALD TRUMP	I didn't care.	0
267	DONALD TRUMP	Look, if they don't want to call me, that's okay.	0
268	DONALD TRUMP	I'm a busy man.	0
269	DONALD TRUMP	I have a lot of things to do.	0
270	DONALD TRUMP	But if I would have been asked to help him in Florida, you saw what I did in Florida.	0
271	DONALD TRUMP	I won in a landslide.	0
272	DONALD TRUMP	I would have helped him.	0
273	DONALD TRUMP	I certainly could have gotten him over the ledge.	0
274	CHUCK TODD	Let me--	0
275	DONALD TRUMP	Wait a minute.	0
276	CHUCK TODD	Okay.	0
277	DONALD TRUMP	So if Mitt Romney did that, I would be happy to talk to him.	0
278	DONALD TRUMP	I think it's great.	0
279	DONALD TRUMP	And I would be because I respect him	0
280	CHUCK TODD	You want him to thank you first, for 2012, before you will reach out to him--	0
281	DONALD TRUMP	I helped -- I helped Mitt Romney a lot.	0
282	CHUCK TODD	And you feel like he was ungrateful--	0
283	DONALD TRUMP	I did.	0
284	DONALD TRUMP	I believe I won him, or helped him win, five states that he was going to lose in the primaries, okay--	0
285	CHUCK TODD	Sounds like you think he was ungrateful.	0
286	CHUCK TODD	You think he's been ungrateful?	0
287	DONALD TRUMP	He was.	0
288	DONALD TRUMP	He was ungrateful.	0
289	DONALD TRUMP	Which is okay.	0
290	DONALD TRUMP	A lot of people are ungrateful.	0
291	DONALD TRUMP	But he was ungrateful.	0
292	DONALD TRUMP	He did not--They did not respond accordingly.	0
293	DONALD TRUMP	And that's okay.	0
294	CHUCK TODD	Alright.	0
295	DONALD TRUMP	But let's see what happens.	0
296	DONALD TRUMP	Let's see what happens--	0
297	CHUCK TODD	Let me move on.	0
298	CHUCK TODD	Let me move on some issue things.	0
299	CHUCK TODD	There's a few things that some people think are contradictions, so I want to see if I can pin you down here.	0
300	CHUCK TODD	The issue of taxes.	0
301	CHUCK TODD	Your tax plan is one where the biggest beneficiaries are the 0.1 percent when it comes to raw dollars that will be saved among taxes.	0
302	CHUCK TODD	But then in an interview earlier this week, you seemed to say, "You know what, my tax plan, it's not set in stone.	0
303	CHUCK TODD	And maybe I'll raise taxes.	0
304	CHUCK TODD	Maybe I'll actually raise taxes on the rich."	0
305	CHUCK TODD	So I guess, which is it?	0
306	CHUCK TODD	Are you willing to raise taxes on 0.1 percent or not--	0
307	DONALD TRUMP	It's definitely-- no, no, no.	0
308	DONALD TRUMP	Let me explain how the world works, okay?	0
309	DONALD TRUMP	I think nobody knows more about taxes than I do, and income than I do.	0
310	DONALD TRUMP	But I'll explain how it all works.	0
311	DONALD TRUMP	I come up with the biggest tax cut by far of any candidate.	0
312	DONALD TRUMP	Anybody.	0
313	DONALD TRUMP	And I put it in.	0
314	DONALD TRUMP	But that doesn't mean that's what we're going to get.	0
315	DONALD TRUMP	We have to negotiate.	0
316	DONALD TRUMP	The thing I'm going to do is make sure the middle class gets good tax breaks.	0
317	DONALD TRUMP	Because they have been absolutely shunned.	0
318	DONALD TRUMP	The other thing, I'm going to fight very hard for business.	0
319	DONALD TRUMP	For the wealthy, I think, frankly, it's going to go up.	0
320	DONALD TRUMP	And you know what, it really should go up.	0
321	DONALD TRUMP	Because the wealthy--	0
322	CHUCK TODD	The wealthy need to pay more taxes?	0
323	CHUCK TODD	What do you define as wealthy, by the way--	0
324	DONALD TRUMP	No.	0
325	DONALD TRUMP	No, let me explain-- somebody like me.	0
326	DONALD TRUMP	Let me explain something--somebody like me--let me explain something.	0
327	DONALD TRUMP	I'm putting in a plan, Chuck.	0
328	DONALD TRUMP	I have to negotiate now with senators and congressmen and lots of-- the fact that I put in a plan, it really is a floor.	0
329	DONALD TRUMP	That's what it is.	0
330	DONALD TRUMP	Whether we like it or not.	0
331	DONALD TRUMP	So I put in my plan.	0
332	DONALD TRUMP	It's quite simple to see.	0
333	DONALD TRUMP	It's a simplification.	0
334	DONALD TRUMP	We lower the number of brackets.	0
335	DONALD TRUMP	We lower the taxes on the middle class, on business.	0
336	DONALD TRUMP	And we lower the taxes on everybody, very substantially.	0
337	DONALD TRUMP	But I have no illusions.	0
338	DONALD TRUMP	I don't think that's going to be the final plan.	0
339	DONALD TRUMP	Because they are going to come to me, including the Democrats and everybody else, they're going to come to me.	0
340	DONALD TRUMP	They're going to want to negotiate.	0
341	DONALD TRUMP	But that's a floor.	0
342	DONALD TRUMP	That's where we're starting.	0
343	CHUCK TODD	So is that--	0
344	DONALD TRUMP	Now, when it comes time to negotiate, I feel less concerned with the rich than I do with the middle class.	0
345	CHUCK TODD	So it sounds like-- should we take that--	0
346	DONALD TRUMP	And I feel very concerned at that.	0
347	CHUCK TODD	--should we assume that most of your plans, then, we shouldn't take you at your word, as sort of that they're floors?	0
348	CHUCK TODD	What you just described?	0
349	CHUCK TODD	That, "You know what, it's my opening statement, but everything is negotiable--"	0
350	DONALD TRUMP	It’s not a word.	0
351	DONALD TRUMP	Excuse me.	0
352	DONALD TRUMP	Excuse me.	0
353	DONALD TRUMP	It's called life, Chuck.	0
354	DONALD TRUMP	It's not my word, of course.	0
355	DONALD TRUMP	I put in a proposal.	0
356	DONALD TRUMP	You know what they are?	0
357	DONALD TRUMP	They're really proposals.	0
358	DONALD TRUMP	People can say it's a tax plan.	0
359	DONALD TRUMP	It's really a tax proposal.	0
360	DONALD TRUMP	Because after I put it in, and I think you know the Senate and Congress--	0
361	CHUCK TODD	Sure.	0
362	CHUCK TODD	Yeah.	0
363	DONALD TRUMP	--you know as much as anybody, they start working with you, and they start fighting.	0
364	DONALD TRUMP	And you know, let's see what happens.	0
365	DONALD TRUMP	But I put in a proposal.	0
366	DONALD TRUMP	Under my proposal, it's the biggest tax cut by far, of any candidate by far.	1
367	DONALD TRUMP	But I'm not under the illusion that that's going to pass.	0
368	DONALD TRUMP	They're going to come to me.	0
369	DONALD TRUMP	They're going to want to raise it for the rich.	0
370	DONALD TRUMP	Frankly, they're going to want to raise it for the rich more than anybody else.	0
371	DONALD TRUMP	But the middle class has to be protected.	0
372	DONALD TRUMP	The rich is probably going to end up paying more.	0
373	DONALD TRUMP	And business might have to pay a little bit more.	0
374	DONALD TRUMP	But we're giving a massive business tax cut.	0
375	DONALD TRUMP	Remember this, we're the highest taxed nation in the world.	1
376	DONALD TRUMP	But this is a tax-- Chuck, this is a tax proposal--	0
377	CHUCK TODD	Wait a minute.	0
378	CHUCK TODD	Let me stop you there.	0
379	CHUCK TODD	You just said, "Businesses might pay a little bit more."	0
380	CHUCK TODD	You just said, "Business might pay a little bit more, but we're going to get 'em a massive tax cut."	0
381	CHUCK TODD	You just said it within ten words.	0
382	DONALD TRUMP	No, no.	0
383	DONALD TRUMP	I didn't say it.	0
384	DONALD TRUMP	Excuse me.	0
385	DONALD TRUMP	I said they might have to pay a little bit more than my proposal, Chuck.	0
386	DONALD TRUMP	I said they might have--	0
387	CHUCK TODD	Oh, your proposal.	0
388	CHUCK TODD	Okay.	0
389	CHUCK TODD	I just wanted to get that clear.	0
390	DONALD TRUMP	--yeah, than my proposal.	0
391	CHUCK TODD	Fair enough.	0
392	DONALD TRUMP	I'm not talking about more than they're paying now.	0
393	CHUCK TODD	Got you.	0
394	DONALD TRUMP	We're the highest taxed nation in the world.	1
395	DONALD TRUMP	Our businesses pay more taxes than any businesses in the world.	1
396	DONALD TRUMP	That's why companies are leaving.	0
397	DONALD TRUMP	So they may have to pay a little bit more than my proposal, is what I mean.	0
398	DONALD TRUMP	I assume you knew that.	0
399	DONALD TRUMP	I assume you know that.	0
400	CHUCK TODD	Got you.	0
401	CHUCK TODD	Okay.	0
402	CHUCK TODD	No, no, no, no.	0
403	CHUCK TODD	I just wanted to clear that up.	0
404	DONALD TRUMP	Okay, good.	0
405	DONALD TRUMP	Good, I'm glad you cleared it up--	0
406	CHUCK TODD	Minimum wage.	0
407	CHUCK TODD	Minimum wage.	0
408	CHUCK TODD	At a debate, you know.	0
409	CHUCK TODD	You remember what you said.	0
410	CHUCK TODD	You thought you didn't want to touch it.	0
411	CHUCK TODD	Now you're open to it.	0
412	CHUCK TODD	What changed?	0
413	DONALD TRUMP	Let me just tell you, I've been traveling the country for many months.	0
414	DONALD TRUMP	Since June 16th.	0
415	DONALD TRUMP	I'm all over.	0
416	DONALD TRUMP	Today I'm in the state of Washington, where the arena right behind me, you probably hear, is packed with thousands and thousands of people.	0
417	DONALD TRUMP	I'm doing that right after I finish you.	0
418	DONALD TRUMP	I have seen what's going on.	0
419	DONALD TRUMP	And I don't know how people make it on $7.25 an hour.	0
420	DONALD TRUMP	Now, with that being said, I would like to see an increase of some magnitude.	0
421	DONALD TRUMP	But I'd rather leave it to the states.	0
422	DONALD TRUMP	Let the states decide.	0
423	DONALD TRUMP	Because don't forget, the states have to compete with each other.	0
424	DONALD TRUMP	So you may have a governor --	0
425	CHUCK TODD	Right.	0
426	CHUCK TODD	You want the fed-- but should the federal government set a floor, and then you let the states--	0
427	DONALD TRUMP	No, I'd rather have the states go out and do what they have to do.	0
428	DONALD TRUMP	And the states compete with each other, not only other countries, but they compete with each other, Chuck.	0
429	DONALD TRUMP	So I like the idea of let the states decide.	0
430	DONALD TRUMP	But I think people should get more.	0
431	DONALD TRUMP	I think they're out there.	0
432	DONALD TRUMP	They're working.	0
433	DONALD TRUMP	It is a very low number.	0
434	DONALD TRUMP	You know, with what's happened to the economy, with what's happened to the cost.	0
435	DONALD TRUMP	I mean, it's just-- I don't know how you live on $7.25 an hour.	0
436	DONALD TRUMP	But I would say let the states decide.	0
437	CHUCK TODD	Another contradiction has been on your feelings toward Hillary Clinton.	0
438	CHUCK TODD	In 2012, as she was leaving Secretary of State, you praised her.	0
439	CHUCK TODD	You thought she did a good job.	0
440	CHUCK TODD	You even sort of said, "You know what, she's not pushing her agenda.	0
441	CHUCK TODD	She had to carry on somebody else's agenda."	0
442	CHUCK TODD	Before that, you didn't fault her on the Iraq War vote because you said, "You know what, she got bad intelligence like a lot of other people got."	0
443	CHUCK TODD	Now, you're saying--	0
444	DONALD TRUMP	I didn't get bad intelligence.	0
445	DONALD TRUMP	I didn't get bad intelligence.	0
446	CHUCK TODD	--you say all-- I understand that.	0
447	CHUCK TODD	But you kind of forgave her on that early on.	0
448	CHUCK TODD	Now, you call her, "She's been crooked from the start."	0
449	CHUCK TODD	I guess this goes back to which Donald Trump do we believe on your feelings toward Hillary Clinton--	0
450	DONALD TRUMP	So let me explain it.	0
451	CHUCK TODD	--2012 or now?	0
452	DONALD TRUMP	Okay.	0
453	DONALD TRUMP	So recently, a magazine said, "Donald Trump's a world class businessman."	0
454	DONALD TRUMP	And I am.	0
455	DONALD TRUMP	I built an amazing company.	0
456	DONALD TRUMP	Some of the greatest assets in the world.	0
457	DONALD TRUMP	And just great stuff.	0
458	DONALD TRUMP	All over the world, I go all over the world.	0
459	DONALD TRUMP	I'm in Europe, I'm in Asia.	0
460	DONALD TRUMP	I'm all over the world.	0
461	DONALD TRUMP	I'm not looking to get in fights with politicians.	0
462	DONALD TRUMP	I'm not looking to get in fights with the Secretary of State, so when I do something in a country, wherever it may be, in Dubai where I'm doing big jobs, and other places, and China where I'm actually getting ready to sign big jobs through my company.	0
463	DONALD TRUMP	Let me just tell you something.	0
464	DONALD TRUMP	I want to get along with politicians.	0
465	DONALD TRUMP	So when somebody says, "What do you think of Hillary Clinton?"	0
466	DONALD TRUMP	Number one, I'm not looking at it that closely, because I'm in business.	0
467	DONALD TRUMP	But when somebody says, three, four, five years ago, "Let's look at Hillary Clinton.	0
468	DONALD TRUMP	What do you think?"	0
469	DONALD TRUMP	I say, "She's doing great."	0
470	DONALD TRUMP	I say everybody's doing great.	0
471	DONALD TRUMP	The fact is she has not done a good job.	0
472	DONALD TRUMP	When I look at what happened with Libya.	0
473	DONALD TRUMP	When I look at what happened with Benghazi.	0
474	DONALD TRUMP	When you look at the migration.	0
475	DONALD TRUMP	When you look at all of the things.	0
476	DONALD TRUMP	But I'm not looking to criticize.	0
477	DONALD TRUMP	You can look at many politicians that haven't done a good job.	0
478	DONALD TRUMP	How are they doing?	0
479	DONALD TRUMP	They're doing just fine.	0
480	DONALD TRUMP	I'm not looking to get into wars with politicians, because I need politicians.	0
481	CHUCK TODD	All right, last question.	0
482	CHUCK TODD	Why not release the tax returns that aren't involved in the audit?	0
483	DONALD TRUMP	Because it's a link.	0
484	DONALD TRUMP	I have very big tax returns.	0
485	DONALD TRUMP	I'm sure you've seen the picture where the returns are literally from the floor to up to here.	0
486	DONALD TRUMP	They're extremely complex.	0
487	DONALD TRUMP	I get audited--	0
488	CHUCK TODD	Do you think you can do it before the election, though?	0
489	DONALD TRUMP	I hope so.	0
490	DONALD TRUMP	I'd like to.	0
491	DONALD TRUMP	I have no problem releasing the tax returns--	0
492	CHUCK TODD	Do you pledge to do it before the election?	0
493	DONALD TRUMP	Excuse me.	0
494	DONALD TRUMP	Sure.	0
495	DONALD TRUMP	If the auditors finish.	0
496	DONALD TRUMP	I'll do it as fast as the auditors finish.	0
497	DONALD TRUMP	Remember this, I've already given my financials.	0
498	DONALD TRUMP	And my financials show I'm worth more than $10 billion by any stretch of the imagination.	0
499	DONALD TRUMP	Has tremendous cash.	0
500	DONALD TRUMP	Tremendous cash flow.	0
501	DONALD TRUMP	You don't learn much from tax returns.	0
502	DONALD TRUMP	But I would love to give the tax returns.	0
503	DONALD TRUMP	But I can't do it until I'm finished with the audit.	0
504	CHUCK TODD	Donald Trump, I've got to leave it there.	0
505	CHUCK TODD	The crowd, it's fired up.	0
506	CHUCK TODD	We already heard Mike Leach, Steve Emtman.	0
507	DONALD TRUMP	It's fired up.	0
508	CHUCK TODD	Big Washington State stars up there.	0
509	CHUCK TODD	Thank you for coming on, sir.	0
510	DONALD TRUMP	That's right.	0
511	DONALD TRUMP	They're great people.	0
512	DONALD TRUMP	Thank you.	0
513	SYSTEM	(END TAPE)	0
514	CHUCK TODD	Within minutes of finishing the interview with me, Donald Trump said something that is going to raise some eyebrows.	0
515	CHUCK TODD	This is what he said about women at that rally in Spokane, Washington.	0
516	DONALD TRUMP	I mean, all of the men were petrified to speak to women anymore.	0
517	DONALD TRUMP	We may raise our voice.	0
518	DONALD TRUMP	You know what?	0
519	DONALD TRUMP	The women get it better than we do, folks.	0
520	CHUCK TODD	We'll discuss that after the break.	0
521	CHUCK TODD	And throughout the morning, we want to show you moments from commencement addresses around the country from some key political leaders.	0
522	CHUCK TODD	We'll start with President Obama at Howard University.	0
523	SYSTEM	(BEGIN TAPE)	0
524	PRES. BARACK OBAMA	Given the current state of our political rhetoric and debate let me say something that may be controversial.	0
525	PRES. BARACK OBAMA	And that is this, America is a better place today than it was when I graduated from college.	0
526	SYSTEM	(END TAPE)	0
527	CHUCK TODD	Welcome back.	0
528	CHUCK TODD	Our panel is here.	0
529	CHUCK TODD	Matt Bai, national political correspondent and columnist for Yahoo News, Republican strategist and pollster Kellyanne Conway, fresh off of Cruz super PAC world.	0
530	CHUCK TODD	Welcome, good to see you here.	0
531	KELLYANNE CONWAY	Thank you.	0
532	CHUCK TODD	Happy Mother's Day, by the way.	0
533	KELLYANNE CONWAY	Thank you very much.	0
534	CHUCK TODD	Andrea Mitchell, chief foreign affairs correspondent, and of course, Eugene Robinson, Pulitzer-Prize winner of The Washington Post.	0
535	CHUCK TODD	I teased everybody with that quote that Trump said at this rally, and let me play it again for anybody that forgot about it.	0
536	CHUCK TODD	Let's take a listen.	0
537	SYSTEM	(BEGIN TAPE)	0
538	DONALD TRUMP	I mean, all of the men we’re petrified to speak to women anymore.	0
539	DONALD TRUMP	We may raise our voice.	0
540	DONALD TRUMP	You know what?	0
541	DONALD TRUMP	The women get it better than we do, folks.	0
542	SYSTEM	(END TAPE)	0
543	CHUCK TODD	Kellyanne, thoughts?	0
544	KELLYANNE CONWAY	Well, that's his whole riff on political correctness.	0
545	KELLYANNE CONWAY	He's not talking about what I think the Hillary people will say he meant, which is pay equity and reproductive rights and healthcare access for women and their children.	0
546	KELLYANNE CONWAY	He's talking about political correctness.	0
547	KELLYANNE CONWAY	I mean, this is a man who over the course of the year, as the frontrunner, the entire time, and now the presumptive nominee, Chuck, has been able to really cash in with voters on this "us versus them."	0
548	KELLYANNE CONWAY	And the "them" changes all the time.	0
549	KELLYANNE CONWAY	The "them" is the big system, the "them" is political correctness, the "them" is the people who take money for--	0
550	CHUCK TODD	There's always a "them."	0
551	KELLYANNE CONWAY	There's always a "them."	0
552	KELLYANNE CONWAY	And I think this is just part of that.	0
553	CHUCK TODD	Andrea?	0
554	ANDREA MITCHELL	Well, he's tapping into, as Kellyanne said, the anger.	0
555	ANDREA MITCHELL	And talking about a rigged system, he's also embracing Bernie Sanders because he's trying to recruit the anti-Hillary Clinton, Bernie Sanders supporters, tap into all of that, they're all against us, the establishment, Hillary Clinton is the establishment.	0
556	ANDREA MITCHELL	And he doesn't answer questions or he changes his positions at will.	0
557	ANDREA MITCHELL	And he still manages to get away with it because he is talking above the level of people questioning him.	0
558	CHUCK TODD	But Matt, I was just thinking, imagine if Mitt Romney had said that quote.	0
559	MATT BAI	Yeah, yeah.	0
560	CHUCK TODD	Four years ago.	0
561	MATT BAI	But this is--	0
562	CHUCK TODD	I mean, he got punished for what Todd Akin said four years ago.	0
563	KELLYANNE CONWAY	But "binders of women" wasn't exactly the finest moment.	0
564	CHUCK TODD	It wasn't, but this is something you would think would become--	0
565	MATT BAI	Binders of women wasn't great.	0
566	MATT BAI	No, it's the same reason, the reason he can, you know, we call it a flip-flop, right, when somebody says one thing and does another.	0
567	MATT BAI	Politics, you can't get away with it.	0
568	MATT BAI	The voters don't like it, it's a sign of inauthenticity, right?	0
569	MATT BAI	Inconsistency.	0
570	MATT BAI	One thing we learned in this primary process, and I think we need to heed it very carefully going forward, he is not judged by the standards of a politician.	0
571	MATT BAI	He is judged by the standards of an entertainer.	0
572	MATT BAI	And entertainers, by the way, reinvent themselves constantly.	0
573	MATT BAI	Read any gossip magazine, they're constantly changing who they are, what they say.	0
574	MATT BAI	The question that remains over this general election is in a general election, with a different broader electorate, is he judged as a politician, or is he judged the way you'd judge an entertainer?	0
575	MATT BAI	Because if it's the latter that’s a different thing.	0
576	EUGENE ROBINSON	I think that's totally right.	0
577	EUGENE ROBINSON	I think that's what we saw throughout that interview.	0
578	EUGENE ROBINSON	When you started asking him about his contradictions and about the issues, "What do you think about minimum wage?"	0
579	EUGENE ROBINSON	Well, yes and no, right?	0
580	EUGENE ROBINSON	I mean, he needs to go either way.	0
581	EUGENE ROBINSON	He's going to go both ways.	0
582	EUGENE ROBINSON	The same on every issue that you tried to pin him down on.	0
583	EUGENE ROBINSON	And so I think it makes the general election campaign totally unpredictable, except in its unpredictability, except in the fact that Trump will run to the left of Clinton on some issues, to the right on other issues.	0
584	EUGENE ROBINSON	And that might set--	0
585	CHUCK TODD	But are conservatives going, "See, we told you he would do this."	0
586	CHUCK TODD	He's doing exactly what Ted Cruz said he was going to do.	0
587	KELLYANNE CONWAY	Some are, Chuck.	0
588	KELLYANNE CONWAY	And they're welcome to their opinions.	0
589	KELLYANNE CONWAY	However, you can't leave on the field the ten-million-plus voters who supported this man in the primaries.	0
590	KELLYANNE CONWAY	It's a historically high figure.	0
591	KELLYANNE CONWAY	And I just have to push back a little bit.	0
592	KELLYANNE CONWAY	I don't think it's fair to say he's judged as an entertainer.	0
593	KELLYANNE CONWAY	What he's judged as is a non-politician.	0
594	KELLYANNE CONWAY	And we found out, the super PAC--	0
595	CHUCK TODD	The hard way.	0
596	KELLYANNE CONWAY	--that, politicians are held for account now for their positions.	0
597	KELLYANNE CONWAY	Non-politicians will be held sometime in the future for their positions.	0
598	KELLYANNE CONWAY	But look, I'm not sure that the election this fall will be a referendum on Donald Trump.	0
599	KELLYANNE CONWAY	It could be a referendum on Hillary Clinton.	0
600	KELLYANNE CONWAY	It's going to be easy for him to say, "Look, you've been in public life for 30 years, so if you want to improve the lot of women, where have you been?"	0
601	CHUCK TODD	Let's go though to this Ryan riff a little bit.	0
602	CHUCK TODD	Donors, it was funny, is it donor generated or was it a message to donors, a message to incumbents who are afraid of running with Trump?	0
603	ANDREA MITCHELL	I think what Paul Ryan is saying is that he has to protect the House majority.	0
604	ANDREA MITCHELL	He has to protect, you know, incumbent Congress members who are concerned about the Donald Trump effect.	0
605	ANDREA MITCHELL	So he's basically going to worry about the swing districts, which is his majority, and those in the safe districts can go with Trump or do whatever they have to do.Look, the fact that he changed his position on minimum wage and on his tax proposal in one interview with you, and has also said importantly, he said in the last 48 hours on CNBC that he would let the U.S. default.	0
606	ANDREA MITCHELL	He would let the U.S. become Greece.	0
607	ANDREA MITCHELL	When he is saying, "I'm not going to pay 100% on treasury bonds," he is saying something to Republican donors, to the business community, that is so shocking, that if it is widely--	0
608	MATT BAI	Right, but does that hurt him politically?	0
609	ANDREA MITCHELL	Well, it hurts him within--	0
610	MATT BAI	Does it?	0
611	MATT BAI	I mean--	0
612	KELLYANNE CONWAY	No.	0
613	MATT BAI	No.	0
614	MATT BAI	I mean, look--	0
615	ANDREA MITCHELL	I think it does.	0
616	MATT BAI	If--	0
617	KELLYANNE CONWAY	Not now.	0
618	ANDREA MITCHELL	If it is properly explained.	0
619	EUGENE ROBINSON	I think it hurts him some.	0
620	MATT BAI	If I'm Donald Trump, and there are few people I'd less likely be, but if I were Donald Trump, I'd go right into the teeth of that.	0
621	MATT BAI	I think it'd be a terrible mistake to try and be the Republican standard bearer.	0
622	MATT BAI	He has to run against the entire system and this is an opening for him to do that.	0
623	EUGENE ROBINSON	Right, but he walks a line when he says these outrageous things that are crazy, perhaps, that we think are crazy, but somehow he never goes too far for his base.	0
624	EUGENE ROBINSON	There are things he could say that would go too far for his base.	0
625	CHUCK TODD	Okay.	0
626	ANDREA MITCHELL	What?	0
627	CHUCK TODD	And you know what?	0
628	EUGENE ROBINSON	We don't know yet.	0
629	CHUCK TODD	We don't know what they are yet, do we?	0
630	EUGENE ROBINSON	We don't know what they are yet.	0
631	CHUCK TODD	We always think we did.	0
632	EUGENE ROBINSON	I am confident that they're out there.	0
633	CHUCK TODD	We're going to talk more about all the "we thinks" and "we thoughts" and what happens later.	0
634	CHUCK TODD	When we come back though, how long has it been since a candidate has been this far behind at the start of the general election campaign?	0
635	CHUCK TODD	That's where Trump is right now.	0
636	CHUCK TODD	So what are the chances that Trump can make up the difference?	0
637	CHUCK TODD	We'll show you what history says.	0
638	CHUCK TODD	And we continue hearing from commencement speakers from the weekend of the political ilk.	0
639	CHUCK TODD	Here's Mitt Romney.	0
640	SYSTEM	(BEIN TAPE)	0
641	MITT ROMNEY	We live in tumultuous times.	0
642	MITT ROMNEY	Demagogues on the right and the left draw upon our darker angels, scapegoating immigrants and Muslims or bankers and businesspeople.	0
643	SYSTEM	(END TAPE)	0
644	MITT ROMNEY	* * *	0
645	CHUCK TODD	Welcome back, Data Download time.	0
646	CHUCK TODD	You probably know by now that Donald Trump is behind Hillary Clinton in the polls.	0
647	CHUCK TODD	But did you know that the last time a candidate was this far behind at this stage has actually been more than a generation ago?	0
648	CHUCK TODD	Let's dive in.	0
649	CHUCK TODD	In the latest NBC News/Wall Street Journal poll conducted a few weeks ago, we had Donald Trump trailing Hillary Clinton nationally by 11 points, it’s actually particularly an unprecedented number.	0
650	CHUCK TODD	Let me compare.	0
651	CHUCK TODD	For instance, when Mitt Romney clinched the Republican nomination in April of 2012, he trailed President Obama at that point in time by six.	0
652	CHUCK TODD	He ended up losing by four.	0
653	CHUCK TODD	Senator John McCain started only two points behind Senator Obama in March, 2008, when he had become the presumptive nominee.	0
654	CHUCK TODD	Of course, McCain lost by seven.	0
655	CHUCK TODD	John Kerry was behind incumbent George W. Bush at two points in March of '04, the month he became the presumptive nominee.	0
656	CHUCK TODD	By the way, the race essentially stayed in the same place.	0
657	CHUCK TODD	Kerry lost by three.	0
658	CHUCK TODD	In 2000, it was March when both Gore and Bush became presumptive nominees of their respective parties.	0
659	CHUCK TODD	That first match-up had Bush up 46-41.	0
660	CHUCK TODD	Gore made up the ground on the popular vote, but he lost the electoral college and of course Bush won.	0
661	CHUCK TODD	You have to go all the way back to 1996 to find a presumptive nominee in worse shape than Trump is right now.	0
662	CHUCK TODD	And that was Bob Dole.	0
663	CHUCK TODD	He trailed Bill Clinton by 17 points at the start of the general election campaign in May of '96.	0
664	CHUCK TODD	But Dole did make up some ground, but he eventually lost in an electoral landslide by eight points.	0
665	CHUCK TODD	So what does this all mean?	0
666	CHUCK TODD	Donald Trump of course was never an underdog in the G.O.P.	0
667	CHUCK TODD	primary.	0
668	CHUCK TODD	He led in nearly every poll after he entered the race.	0
669	CHUCK TODD	Many folks just simply thought we should ignore the polls, that the polls were wrong, that they were oversampling Trump voters.	0
670	CHUCK TODD	The polls were right, Trump won.	0
671	CHUCK TODD	But those same polls have all had Trump losing to Clinton and in many cases, losing them badly.	0
672	CHUCK TODD	Can Trump make up the ground?	0
673	CHUCK TODD	History as we just showed you, says no.	0
674	CHUCK TODD	But then again, he's already defied history once.	0
675	CHUCK TODD	When we come back, an example of what Donald Trump is up against.	0
676	CHUCK TODD	A Republican senator who's not ready to endorse him.	0
677	CHUCK TODD	But he's also not ready to reject him outright either.	0
678	CHUCK TODD	Welcome back.	0
679	CHUCK TODD	As we said earlier, divided parties lose elections.	0
680	CHUCK TODD	It's a pretty simple proposition.	0
681	CHUCK TODD	Let me show you some history here.	0
682	CHUCK TODD	In '68, the Democrats were split.	0
683	CHUCK TODD	They had their establishment vice president, Hubert Humphrey.	0
684	CHUCK TODD	They had a peace-wing candidate led by Eugene McCarthy.	0
685	CHUCK TODD	That riff played out on the streets of Chicago and helped Richard Nixon take the White House.	0
686	CHUCK TODD	'76, Gerald Ford was challenged on the right all the way to the convention by Ronald Reagan.	0
687	CHUCK TODD	A fight, arguably, some could say, to help put Jimmy Carter into the White House that fall.	0
688	CHUCK TODD	1980, it was Carter's turn.	0
689	CHUCK TODD	A bitter challenge from the left by Senator Ted Kennedy certainly helped Reagan win 44 states and the presidency.	0
690	CHUCK TODD	1992, George H. W. Bush was the president, he had a populist primary challenger in the very conservative Pat Buchanan, an insurgency arguably that helped make Bush a one-term president.	0
691	CHUCK TODD	Joining me now is a man who's emblematic of the current split in the Republican party.	0
692	CHUCK TODD	He's Republican Senator Jeff Flake of Arizona, who right now says he's not ready to support Donald Trump, but he also hasn't ruled it out either.	0
693	CHUCK TODD	Senator Flake, welcome back to the show, sir.	0
694	SENATOR JEFF FLAKE	Hey, thanks for having me on.	0
695	CHUCK TODD	So you have said he's got to earn your support, you're looking for him to change his tone, change some of it, particularly the issue on the temporary ban on Muslims seems to be among the things that you find most difficult to support because it doesn't pass constitutional muster.	0
696	CHUCK TODD	If he doesn't retract that, can you ever support him?	0
697	SENATOR JEFF FLAKE	You know, I can't see that.	0
698	SENATOR JEFF FLAKE	He's got to soften his position there.	0
699	SENATOR JEFF FLAKE	I mean, a total and complete ban on Muslims, that is a religious test that is certainly against the constitution.	0
700	SENATOR JEFF FLAKE	And it is the last thing we should do if we want to win a war on terrorism.	0
701	SENATOR JEFF FLAKE	So it's constitutionally wrong and also strategically, it's just not a smart thing to do.	0
702	CHUCK TODD	So what should the party do though?	0
703	CHUCK TODD	What do you want?	0
704	CHUCK TODD	Do you want to see Mitt Romney run?	0
705	CHUCK TODD	If Trump's not going to back away from these things, and you can't support him, what do you do?	0
706	CHUCK TODD	How do you help your friend John McCain win his reelection in Arizona?	0
707	SENATOR JEFF FLAKE	You know, obviously Donald Trump was not my first choice or my 17th choice to put it mildly.	0
708	SENATOR JEFF FLAKE	However, he is the nominee, the presumptive nominee.	0
709	SENATOR JEFF FLAKE	I don't see a third-party challenger come along.	0
710	SENATOR JEFF FLAKE	I would rather, as Paul Ryan has said, rather Mr. Trump simply change some of his positions and modify what he has said.	0
711	SENATOR JEFF FLAKE	Now, I think he's going to need to, we are well behind in the polls right now, and in order to win this election, if Republicans want to win, and we do, then we've got to change the approach because we're not going to win taking these positions.	0
712	CHUCK TODD	You know, some Trump supporters would say modifying has been the problem with Republican nominees in the past.	0
713	CHUCK TODD	Modifying, not saying what you believe, not speaking truth to power, or however you want to characterize what Trump is doing.	0
714	CHUCK TODD	And they say, "Hey, the voters have spoken, Senator, you need to get on board with him.	0
715	CHUCK TODD	Why should he be obligated to get on board with where the Republican party is?"	0
716	SENATOR JEFF FLAKE	Republican voters have spoken in a primary.	0
717	SENATOR JEFF FLAKE	We've found in the past that that's a big difference from voters speaking in a general election.	0
718	SENATOR JEFF FLAKE	We're now moving to a general election and it's a different ballgame completely.	0
719	SENATOR JEFF FLAKE	We've found in the past, and we've done an autopsy every time we come out of one of these elections that we, for example, need a better position on immigration.	0
720	SENATOR JEFF FLAKE	Simply saying we're going to deport 11 million people, that's not a position you can take in a general election.	0
721	SENATOR JEFF FLAKE	It's not a rational approach.	0
722	SENATOR JEFF FLAKE	So a general election is far different from a primary election.	0
723	CHUCK TODD	Do you accept this idea though that if a significant chunk of party leadership, like yourself, Speaker Ryan, doesn't end up rallying around Trump, it probably is the death warrant for his candidacy in the fall.	0
724	CHUCK TODD	Are you comfortable with that?	0
725	SENATOR JEFF FLAKE	I don't think that that's death warrant for his candidacy.	0
726	SENATOR JEFF FLAKE	I think supporting a religious test for people to come here, saying you're going to change libel laws to make it easier to sue those who you don't agree with, saying that we're going to default on the debt, taking positions like that are what is going to impede your campaign, not the fact that some Republican leaders disagree with you.	0
727	CHUCK TODD	Is there anything from Trump's success that in these primaries that made you think, "You know what, maybe I ought to rethink my position on X"?	0
728	SENATOR JEFF FLAKE	You know, like I said, it's one thing to win a primary.	0
729	SENATOR JEFF FLAKE	We all know that it's easier to win a primary taking certain positions, sometimes hard-core positions.	0
730	SENATOR JEFF FLAKE	But we always know that those positions may not work in a general either.	0
731	SENATOR JEFF FLAKE	So it's one thing to win a primary, it's a complete other ballgame to win a general election.	0
732	SENATOR JEFF FLAKE	We're out to win a general election as Republicans.	0
733	SENATOR JEFF FLAKE	We don't want another eight years or another four years of a Democrat in the White House.	0
734	SENATOR JEFF FLAKE	And so we've got to take a different position than we've taken in the primary.	0
735	CHUCK TODD	You're one of the few Republicans that met with the president Supreme Court nominee Merrick Garland, you called him a "man of accomplishment," and somebody with a quote, "keen intellect."	0
736	CHUCK TODD	But you also believe that you want to wait for the election.	0
737	CHUCK TODD	You think the voters should have a say in this before dealing with the Supreme Court vacancy.	0
738	CHUCK TODD	Now that Donald Trump is the presumptive nominee, have you changed your mind on that pledge?	0
739	SENATOR JEFF FLAKE	I think Republicans are more than justified in waiting.	0
740	SENATOR JEFF FLAKE	That is following both principle and precedent.	0
741	SENATOR JEFF FLAKE	But the principle is to have the most conservative, qualified jurists that we can have on the Supreme Court, not that the people ought to decide before the next election.	0
742	SENATOR JEFF FLAKE	I've never held that position.	0
743	SENATOR JEFF FLAKE	If we come to a point, I’ve said all along, where we're going to lose the election, or we lose the election in November, then we ought to approve him quickly.	0
744	SENATOR JEFF FLAKE	Because I'm certain that he'll be more conservative than a Hillary Clinton nomination comes January.	0
745	CHUCK TODD	All right.	0
746	CHUCK TODD	Jeff Flake, Republican senator from Arizona, I'm going to leave it there.	0
747	CHUCK TODD	Thanks for getting up early out there and coming on this morning.	0
748	CHUCK TODD	I appreciate it.	0
749	SENATOR JEFF FLAKE	Glad to do it.	0
750	CHUCK TODD	Alrighty.	0
751	CHUCK TODD	We'll be back in a moment, but first Dana Carvey's church lady made a comeback last night on S.N.L.	0
752	CHUCK TODD	Take a look.	0
753	SYSTEM	(BEGIN TAPE)	0
754	DANA CARVEY	Now we've landed on the exciting presidential match-up between a godless, liberal Democrat and Hillary Clinton.	0
755	SYSTEM	(END TAPE)	0
756	CHUCK TODD	We are back.	0
757	CHUCK TODD	So, how does the Republican Party put this all back together?	0
758	CHUCK TODD	It’s just interesting hearing from Jeff Flake, um, Kellyanne.	0
759	CHUCK TODD	Uh, I want to put up what Bill Bennett said.	0
760	CHUCK TODD	Bill Bennett, you know, you have Jeff Flake, Paul Ryan, they’re in one place.	0
761	CHUCK TODD	Bill Bennett said this: “It’s not the time to be out there demanding all of these things, trying to get Trump to suddenly become Reagan.	0
762	CHUCK TODD	Now is the time to surround him with good people and work with him at the convention.”	0
763	CHUCK TODD	You said something interesting during the break, you said this is generational in the conservative movement.	0
764	CHUCK TODD	Explain.	0
765	KELLYANNE CONWAY	Some of it is, you know how John McCain was saying he’ll vote for Donald Trump, I mean, he obviously has --	0
766	CHUCK TODD	Bob Dole.	0
767	KELLYANNE CONWAY	Bob Dole.	0
768	KELLYANNE CONWAY	Newt Gingrich.	0
769	KELLYANNE CONWAY	Bill Bennett, now.	0
770	KELLYANNE CONWAY	It is somewhat generation for them.	0
771	KELLYANNE CONWAY	They recognize that it’s healthy for a party going through some growing pains to actually shed some of its skin.	0
772	KELLYANNE CONWAY	I also -- I also want to get back to Senator Flake’s interview, because I thought it was astonishing for this reason: Donald Trump just won 48 percent of the vote in the Republican primary -- every single delegate in Flake’s home state of Arizona, he got 250,000 voters, and you just can’t ignore that.	0
773	KELLYANNE CONWAY	I mean his policies on immigration began in Jan Brewer’s Arizona.	0
774	KELLYANNE CONWAY	And so I think there's a zeitgeist out there that some of the establishment of a Republican party are still ignoring.	0
775	KELLYANNE CONWAY	And I would say, when I think of Senator Flake, I also, who I respect enormously, I think of this whole class of 2010 that is up for reelection in the Senate in 2016 this year.	0
776	KELLYANNE CONWAY	They rode the Tea Party wave.	0
777	KELLYANNE CONWAY	And now they've switched to decaf somehow.	0
778	KELLYANNE CONWAY	It's like your votes are so moderate, and if you look back--	0
779	MATT BAI	They got into government.	0
780	KELLYANNE CONWAY	They got into government.	0
781	KELLYANNE CONWAY	And you go back a year ago, and look at their approval ratings and their reelect numbers a year ago.	0
782	KELLYANNE CONWAY	They weren't doing so well.	0
783	KELLYANNE CONWAY	So laying it just at the feet of Donald Trump I think is naïve and inaccurate.	0
784	EUGENE ROBINSON	But to your point about the generational divide, the idea that a bunch of senior figures are going to sit Donald Trump down in a room and coach him up, I mean, this is just insane.	0
785	EUGENE ROBINSON	It's not going to happen, right?	0
786	EUGENE ROBINSON	And more to that point, Trump knows it's not going to happen.	0
787	EUGENE ROBINSON	Trump is behaving as if this is his party now.	0
788	EUGENE ROBINSON	And that's what they're up against.	0
789	ANDREA MITCHELL	And when Paul Ryan was saying, you know, "I want to hear a different tone," he does not want to hear what Donald Trump then went right out and did, which was to talk about Hillary Clinton, the philandering of Bill Clinton, how she was an enabler, he talked about murderers involved in Whitewater.	0
790	ANDREA MITCHELL	In that very next speech, he was going in every direction that Paul Ryan does not want to hear.	0
791	ANDREA MITCHELL	He really wants to see whether Donald Trump can speak differently.	0
792	ANDREA MITCHELL	And he's not going to speak differently.	0
793	ANDREA MITCHELL	He can say one thing when he's on a teleprompter and another when he's out in front of a crowd, which is egging him on and reinforcing his basic instincts.	0
794	ANDREA MITCHELL	And Newt Gingrich, you can put Gingrich on the ticket, which is part of what's going on also, you know, put a running mate on who can help work with Congress.	0
795	ANDREA MITCHELL	That is not going to change Donald Trump.	0
796	KELLYANNE CONWAY	But as a Republican strategist here, I just have to say, Paul Ryan, who I have great affection, admiration for, he was on the ticket last time.	0
797	KELLYANNE CONWAY	The Romney/Ryan ticket lost eight of the nine swing states, they lost his home state of Wisconsin by almost seven points--	0
798	ANDREA MITCHELL	I don't think you can blame the running mate for what happened at the top of the ticket.	0
799	KELLYANNE CONWAY	Well -- but it's fine, it's just that it's like, you had your chance last time.	0
800	KELLYANNE CONWAY	I mean, they got 5 percent of the African American vote in Wisconsin.	0
801	KELLYANNE CONWAY	They got beaten among Hispanics by two to one.	0
802	KELLYANNE CONWAY	Is Trump going to do worse than that?	0
803	MATT BAI	Kellyanne makes a really, well, meaning to I think makes a really-- it was an interesting point here, which is about, you know, for years, for cycles and cycles and cycles, the Republican establishment has basically said to the base of the Republican party, "You lost--"	0
804	KELLYANNE CONWAY	Fall in line.	0
805	MATT BAI	--swallow it, get in line.	0
806	KELLYANNE CONWAY	And we have.	0
807	MATT BAI	Now they're being asked to get in line, and suddenly it's, "But it's not your party."	0
808	CHUCK TODD	Wait a minute -- you inherited it.	0
809	CHUCK TODD	And Trump rightfully said, “Inherited it?	0
810	CHUCK TODD	I won it."	0
811	EUGENE ROBINSON	I won it.	0
812	EUGENE ROBINSONI	won it.	0
813	EUGENE ROBINSONI	did not inherit the party, I won it.	0
814	EUGENE ROBINSON	And he's right.	0
815	EUGENE ROBINSON	He beat them.	0
816	EUGENE ROBINSON	He beat them badly.	0
817	ANDREA MITCHELL	Guys, look at where Hillary Clinton is going to be tomorrow.	0
818	ANDREA MITCHELL	She's going to be in LoudounCounty, Virginia.	0
819	CHUCK TODD	Actually, today I believe.	0
820	CHUCK TODD	I think they're campaigning, I think that starts today.	0
821	ANDREA MITCHELL	No that is her tomorrow, Monday afternoon.	0
822	ANDREA MITCHELL	Loudoun County, Virginia.	0
823	ANDREA MITCHELL	That is where she is going to go for a Republican and swing voters for women, married women, older women, because she has not gotten the millennials, she knows she's got a big problem there.	0
824	ANDREA MITCHELL	But that is where she is trying to fight a general election strategy.	0
825	CHUCK TODD	Kelly, and I want to let you to have the last--	0
826	KELLYANNE CONWAY	And the following day she’s going to lose in West Virginia and Oregon.	0
827	CHUCK TODD	Right.	0
828	CHUCK TODD	But I want you to have the last word here on women.	0
829	CHUCK TODD	You have spent a lot of time polling women for the Republican party, trying to help them with their problems with the gender gap.	0
830	CHUCK TODD	How does Donald Trump fix this gender gap issue?	0
831	KELLYANNE CONWAY	He has to go on the issues.	0
832	KELLYANNE CONWAY	And so, because so far, I think if Hillary Clinton runs a strict ideological and identity-politics campaign, she could lose.	0
833	KELLYANNE CONWAY	And she also has a problem among men.	0
834	KELLYANNE CONWAY	I think part of what Donald Trump says on the stump is very machismo, because Hillary Clinton has the reverse gender gap.	0
835	KELLYANNE CONWAY	Men dislike her, don't trust her, and don't want her to be commander in chief--	0
836	CHUCK TODD	Who's the majority of the country, though.	0
837	KELLYANNE CONWAY	Of course they are.	0
838	KELLYANNE CONWAY	And he will, I think he has to fight her on the issues.	0
839	KELLYANNE CONWAY	Because the one thing that's not going to change between now and November is who is the outsider and who is the insider.	0
840	KELLYANNE CONWAY	And this does seem to be an outsider's election.	0
841	MATT BAI	Boy, if he has to fight her on the issues, I don't know.	0
842	KELLYANNE CONWAY	Well, where has she been for 30 years?	0
843	CHUCK TODD	I'm going to do a quick 45-second pause and we’ll pick this back up here.	0
844	CHUCK TODD	Endgame is coming up.	0
845	CHUCK TODD	But first, we're going to continue.	0
846	CHUCK TODD	Here's Bill Clinton speaking to a class of 2016 as well.	0
847	CHUCK TODD	Take a listen.	0
848	SYSTEM	(BEGIN TAPE)	0
849	PRES. BILL CLINTON	The last two years has seen an amazing explosion of economic, social, and political empowerment.	0
850	PRES. BILL CLINTON	They have also laid bare the power of persistent inequalities, political and social instability, and identity politics based on the simple proposition that our differences are all that matter.	0
851	SYSTEM	(END TAPE)	0
852	ANNOUNCER	Coming up, Meet the Press endgame, brought to you by Boeing, building the future one century at a time.	0
853	CHUCK TODD	End Game time and I always feel bad when we have a great conversation and then the 45-second break and I’m like I want to recreate that.	0
854	CHUCK TODD	Quickly Bill Clinton you had an interesting reaction you guys just now to his commencement Matt.	0
855	MATT BAI	Well you can see that these years have been difficult for him, he is struggling with his legacy of the 90’s.	0
856	MATT BAI	That he is so proud of which has gotten pilloried now by both parties.	0
857	MATT BAI	And I think that he is trying to to make the case, that that progress is real and that the rest of it isn't his fault.	0
858	MATT BAI	And I think that he's always haunted by that--	0
859	KELLYANNE CONWAY	But also, Bill Clinton's Democratic party is gone.	0
860	KELLYANNE CONWAY	They've purged their pro-lifers, they're pro-Second Amendment, there are no boll weevil Democrats, no Blue Dog Democrats who are the fiscally conservative.	0
861	ANDREA MITCHELL	Or the D.L.C.	0
862	ANDREA MITCHELL	that he helped create.	0
863	KELLYANNE CONWAY	It's disbanded.	0
864	ANDREA MITCHELL	And his own wife has left him on that.	0
865	KELLYANNE CONWAY	That's correct.	0
866	ANDREA MITCHELL	She has now moved so far towards Bernie Sanders, and she can't move back again.	0
867	CHUCK TODD	But i thought it was --fascinating, you know, we could have done 20 minutes on what he meant by that.	0
868	EUGENE ROBINSON	Well yeah, yeah.	0
869	CHUCK TODD	He seems a little fearful of the change.	0
870	EUGENE ROBINSON	Well, he's fearful of the change, he doesn't like the fact that identity politics and microtargeting, and all of that--	0
871	ANDREA MITCHELL	Or that he’s being protested against--	0
872	EUGENE ROBINSON	--that's not Bill Clinton.	0
873	EUGENE ROBINSON	That's not his style.	0
874	CHUCK TODD	All right, let's move to the media.	0
875	CHUCK TODD	Jim Rutenberg is the media writer at The New York Times, he wrote this: "Every election cycle brings questionable news coverage, but this season has been truly spectacular in its failings.	0
876	CHUCK TODD	It has been 'Dewey Defeats Truman' on a relentless, rolling basis.	0
877	CHUCK TODD	The mistakes piled up, the bad predictions, the overplaying of every slight development of the horse race to the point of whiplash, the lighthearted treatment of what turned out to be the most serious candidacy in the Republican field.	0
878	CHUCK TODD	The lessons learned did not."	0
879	CHUCK TODD	I'm sort of amused by this coming from The New York Times.	0
880	CHUCK TODD	Eugene, not to pile on one newspaper, but if you were to compare, say, The New York Times, and The Washington Post, the two big behemoths, The Post took Trump more seriously--	0
881	EUGENE ROBINSON	Uh, yeah,more seriously.	0
882	CHUCK TODD	--quicker than The Times did.	0
883	EUGENE ROBINSON	Right, right.	0
884	EUGENE ROBINSON	The key to covering this campaign was to cover the campaign as it was, not as you thought it should be.	0
885	CHUCK TODD	Or wished it was.	0
886	EUGENE ROBINSON	Or wished it was, or whatever.	0
887	EUGENE ROBINSON	And so observer bias crept into a lot of coverage and people took more seriously the data points that confirmed their view than the data points that refuted their view.	0
888	EUGENE ROBINSON	And so while Donald Trump was winning, he was way ahead in the polls, and so people would write that well, 56 percent of Republicans voted for somebody other than Donald Trump.	0
889	EUGENE ROBINSON	Well, yeah.	0
890	EUGENE ROBINSON	But, 85 percent voted for somebody other than Jeb Bush or Marco Rubio or whatever, so.	0
891	ANDREA MITCHELL	But i don’t think--I don't think you can escape the fact that he got enormous amounts of free media and that it was all focused on live carrying of his rallies and reporting every tweet.	0
892	ANDREA MITCHELL	And there was less policy discussion, less policy coverage, not just about Donald Trump but all of the candidates.	0
893	ANDREA MITCHELL	It was more horserace, more poll driven, more social-media driven than in any previous campaign--	0
894	CHUCK TODD	But by the way, the candidates was more poll driven.	0
895	CHUCK TODD	Don’t forget the candidates--I know	0
896	ANDREA MITCHELL	But that doesn't mean that you define it.	0
897	CHUCK TODD	I understand that.	0
898	CHUCK TODD	But here was another thing I'm wondering, if you're Ted Cruz, or if you're any candidate in the future, message discipline is a negative.	0
899	KELLYANNE CONWAY	It's actually a negative.	0
900	MATT BAI	It has been for awhile.	0
901	KELLYANNE CONWAY	That's right.	0
902	CHUCK TODD	By the way, apparently because it's boring?	0
903	KELLYANNE CONWAY	It's boring.	0
904	KELLYANNE CONWAY	And it's also, look, it's not just the coverage.	0
905	KELLYANNE CONWAY	I think there was, to Gene's point, conclusions in search of evidence--	0
906	EUGENE ROBINSON	Yes, yes.	0
907	KELLYANNE CONWAY	--the entire time this race was covered.	0
908	KELLYANNE CONWAY	And I think it's been very humbling for some folks.	0
909	KELLYANNE CONWAY	But it’s also, I don't think Donald Trump could have run as effectively four or eight years ago.	0
910	KELLYANNE CONWAY	He's got this multilevel media platform now.	0
911	KELLYANNE CONWAY	If he's not tweeting, he's rallying.	0
912	KELLYANNE CONWAY	If he's not rallying, he's giving interviews to folks like you, Chuck.	0
913	KELLYANNE CONWAY	But I also want to say something else that's not been said.	0
914	KELLYANNE CONWAY	I think it's also, he's just much more fun to cover than Hillary Clinton.	0
915	KELLYANNE CONWAY	And that's going to matter this fall too.	0
916	ANDREA MITCHELL	Well, he was much more excessive.	0
917	KELLYANNE CONWAY	Correct.	0
918	MATT BAI	I think there's a little bit of a false dichotomy here.	0
919	MATT BAI	I agree with Andrea and I've written a lot about the role that the media played, particularly in the early phase of this campaign.	0
920	MATT BAI	But it was a little bit about, I think Jim, who's a fantastic writer and a friend of mine, sets up a little bit of a false dichotomy by saying, you know, "He was treated too much as an entertainer and not taken seriously as a politician."	0
921	MATT BAI	I think the real mistake is the media not understanding that there is no line between politics and entertainment in this environment.	0
922	CHUCK TODD	Well, what a segue.	0
923	MATT BAI	And that's where we've ended up.	0
924	CHUCK TODD	Because speaking of no line in politics and entertainment, here's S.N.L.	0
925	CHUCK TODD	last night.	0
926	SYSTEM	(BEGIN TAPE)	0
927	DANA CARVEY	Donnie, there are those who say you're not qualified, and that's not true.	0
928	DANA CARVEY	You know, I remember a Celebrity Apprentice episode where Gary Busey didn't sell enough pancakes.	0
929	DANA CARVEY	And you just said, "You're fired."	0
930	DANA CARVEY	And I thought right then and there, "Give this man the nuclear codes."	0
931	DARRELL HAMMOND (AS DONALD TRUMP)	A lot of people are saying that.	0
932	SYSTEM	(END TAPE)	0
933	ANDREA MITCHELL	I mean, it is the culture that has changed the political coverage as well.	0
934	MATT BAI	And the technology.	0
935	ANDREA MITCHELL	Yes.	0
936	ANDREA MITCHELL	Exactly	0
937	CHUCK TODD	Trump has seen it.	0
938	EUGENE ROBINSON	Yeah.	0
939	CHUCK TODD	Obama was the guy that saw it in '08.	0
940	CHUCK TODD	Trump saw it now.	0
941	ANDREA MITCHELL	And the Clinton people think that Obama is going to be this political nuclear weapon to go out on a trail,	0
942	CHUCK TODD	Could be.	0
943	ANDREA MITCHELL	--and could be to rally his coalition behind her even though people in his coalition are still lukewarm about her.	0
944	ANDREA MITCHELL	But boy, that's a line--	0
945	MATT BAI	There's a history, there’s a history--	0
946	CHUCK TODD	You guys can keep talking, but I'm going to turn the cameras off.	0
947	CHUCK TODD	You guys have been terrific.	0
948	CHUCK TODD	That's all for today.	0
949	CHUCK TODD	Happy Mother's Day.	0
950	CHUCK TODD	CVS is still open if you've forgotten.	0
951	CHUCK TODD	So hurry up.	0
952	CHUCK TODD	If it's Sunday though, it's Meet the Press.	0