20160424_meet_the_press.tsv

1	CHUCK TODD	This Sunday, what ever happened to the "Stop Trump" movement?	0
2	CHUCK TODD	advertisement	0
3	DONALD TRUMP	We're winning by a lot.	0
4	DONALD TRUMP	We're kicking ass, I'll tell you.	0
5	CHUCK TODD	Trump keeps winning.	0
6	CHUCK TODD	G.O.P.	0
7	CHUCK TODD	leaders are falling in line, and neither Cruz nor Kasich are gaining momentum.	0
8	CHUCK TODD	Is it possible this "Stop Trump" movement has been stopped?	0
9	CHUCK TODD	Plus, my sit-down with Bernie Sanders.	0
10	SEN. BERNIE SANDERS	I will do everything that I can to make certain that-- Donald Trump is not elected president.	0
11	CHUCK TODD	The senator from Vermont on Trump, his chances of winning the nomination, and why he thinks he's losing to Hillary Clinton.	0
12	SEN. BERNIE SANDERS	Well because poor people don’t vote.	0
13	SEN. BERNIE SANDERS	I mean, that’s just a fact that’s a sad reality of American society.	0
14	SEN. BERNIE SANDERS	advertisement	0
15	CHUCK TODD	Also, is the U.S. helping to cover up a Saudi Arabian government role in 9/11?	0
16	CHUCK TODD	There are 28 pages that may have the answers.	0
17	CHUCK TODD	Should they be declassified?	0
18	CHUCK TODD	And joining me for insight and analysis this Sunday morning are Robert Costa of The Washington Post, MSNBC's Joy-Ann Reid, Republican strategist Nicolle Wallace, and Jose Diaz-Balart, of NBC News and Telemundo.	0
19	CHUCK TODD	Welcome to Sunday.	0
20	CHUCK TODD	It's Meet the Press.	0
21	ANNOUNCER	From NBC News in Washington, this is Meet the Press with Chuck Todd.	0
22	CHUCK TODD	Good Sunday morning, with Bernie Sanders’ prospects for taking the Democratic nomination from Hillary Clinton getting slimmer by the day.	0
23	CHUCK TODD	Sanders told me yesterday that he's fallen behind because in his words, poor people don't vote.	0
24	CHUCK TODD	There's a lot more in that interview, and we're going to get to it later in the show.	0
25	CHUCK TODD	And we're going to get to the Democrats as well.	0
26	CHUCK TODD	But we begin with the Republican race.	0
27	CHUCK TODD	It is no stretch to conclude that when it comes to Donald Trump, the Republican party has slowly been working its way through the classic five stages of grief.	0
28	CHUCK TODD	The first one was denial, "Trump can't be taken seriously," the second one, anger, "What makes this guy think he is even a Republican or a conservative anyway?"	0
29	CHUCK TODD	The third, bargaining, "Let's take it to the voters, they'll reject him, right?"	0
30	CHUCK TODD	The fourth, depression, "Oh my God, he's actually winning this thing."	0
31	CHUCK TODD	And now the fifth stage, the hardest one of all, acceptance.	0
32	CHUCK TODD	Why?	0
33	CHUCK TODD	Trump just won big in New York.	0
34	CHUCK TODD	He's expected to win big in the five primaries that are held this Tuesday, which include Pennsylvania, where our new NBC News/Wall Street Journal/Marist poll has Trump with a double-digit lead, sitting at 45 percent, over Ted Cruz at 27, John Kasich at 24.	0
35	CHUCK TODD	And yes, if you add up Kasich and Cruz, it's a majority.	0
36	CHUCK TODD	Which of course, is going to make the "Stop Trump" people hit their head against the wall.	0
37	CHUCK TODD	For the anti-Trump loyalists who are counting on Indiana nine days later to be their firewall, consider this: the only poll we've seen out of Indiana in the last week came out Friday.	0
38	CHUCK TODD	And it shows Trump leading by just six points.	0
39	CHUCK TODD	But the fact that he's ahead is a big deal, 37-31, Kasich sitting at 22, again, Cruz and Kasich, together, over 50.	0
40	CHUCK TODD	Throw in a Republican establishment though that seems more cowed now by Trump than energized to defeat him, and the G.O.P.	0
41	CHUCK TODD	does look more and more as if it's ready to accept the man whose name often appears after the word, "Never."	0
42	SYSTEM	(BEGIN TAPE)	0
43	CHUCK TODD	advertisement	0
44	DONALD TRUMP	And presidential's easy.	0
45	CHUCK TODD	With "Stop Trump" going nowhere, this week, three signs that Republicans are now tiptoeing towards acceptance, coming to terms with the fact that Donald Trump may be the party's nominee.	0
46	CHUCK TODD	Sign number one, evidence of surrender by the party's leaders.	0
47	CHUCK TODD	At the R.N.C.	0
48	CHUCK TODD	spring meeting in Florida, Republican chairman Reince Priebus warned "Stop Trump" sympathizers to get in line.	0
49	REINCE PRIEBUS	Politics is a team sport.	0
50	REINCE PRIEBUS	And we can't win unless we rally around whoever becomes our nominee.	0
51	CHUCK TODD	And the party went out of its way to disprove Trump's charge that it's rigging the game.	0
52	CHUCK TODD	It rejected changes to convention rules.	0
53	CHUCK TODD	After Mitch McConnell seemed to relish the idea of Trump losing a multiple-ballot convention--	0
54	SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL	I'm increasingly optimistic that there actually may be a second ballot.	0
55	SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL	advertisement	0
56	CHUCK TODD	--he quickly walked that back.	0
57	SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL	What I said somewhat inartfully is that we'll have a nominee once we get to 1,237.	0
58	CHUCK TODD	With Republicans, including former nominee John McCain, threatening skip to convention, House Speaker Paul Ryan urged his party to be there.	0
59	SPEAKER PAUL RYAN	I think it could be a great, historical exercise.	0
60	SPEAKER PAUL RYAN	I mean, it could be something that you'll remember for the rest of your lives.	0
61	CHUCK TODD	Sign number two, the "Stop Trump" movement isn't spending.	0
62	CHUCK TODD	Not a dime on TV ads in New York.	0
63	CHUCK TODD	Just $300,000 in this Tuesday's primaries, which Trump is expected to dominate.	0
64	CHUCK TODD	Instead, holding its fire until the May 3rd Indiana primary.	0
65	MALE NARRATOR	To stop Trump, vote for Cruz.	0
66	CHUCK TODD	Sign number three, the failure of an anti-Trump alternative to launch.	0
67	SEN. TED CRUZ	John Kasich is an honorable and decent man, whose only role in this election is as a spoiler.	0
68	GOV. JOHN KASICH	If he was saying that if I couldn't mathematically win the nomination, I should get out, he can't mathematically win it.	0
69	CHUCK TODD	To make acceptance easier to swallow, Trump's team is softening his image, promising a more disciplined, professional candidate who can work with the party.	0
70	PAUL MANAFORT	We’re here really to let them know that we're going to run a traditional campaign with them.	0
71	CHUCK TODD	And behind closed doors, Trump's new campaign chief went further.	0
72	PAUL MANAFORT	And when he's out on the stage, when he's talking about the kinds of things he's talking about on the stump, he's projecting an image that's for that purpose.	0
73	PAUL MANAFORT	You'll start to see more depth of the person, the real person.	0
74	CHUCK TODD	But on Saturday, the new Trump sounded a lot like the old Trump.	0
75	DONALD TRUMP	Lyin’ Ted Cruz, right?	0
76	DONALD TRUMP	He said, "He is saying," you know, with that horrible flourish, you know the hands?	0
77	DONALD TRUMP	He walks in, bible held high, then he puts the bible down, and then he lies.	0
78	DONALD TRUMP	He's a liar.	0
79	SYSTEM	(END TAPE)	0
80	CHUCK TODD	Oh, good old Trump.	0
81	CHUCK TODD	I'm joined by Katie Packer.	0
82	CHUCK TODD	She's been a key figure in this "Never Trump" movement.	0
83	CHUCK TODD	She runs an anti-Trump PAC called Our Principles PAC.	0
84	CHUCK TODD	And Michael Steele, former chairman of the Republican National Committee.	0
85	CHUCK TODD	I want to bring in the panel in a few moments here.	0
86	CHUCK TODD	But Kate, let me start with you.	0
87	CHUCK TODD	You're the most-prominent face these days from "Never Trump."	0
88	CHUCK TODD	Why are you the most-prominent face?	0
89	CHUCK TODD	I say that with all due respect.	0
90	CHUCK TODD	You're not an elected official, you're not running for president, you've worked for people that have run for president.	0
91	CHUCK TODD	Why are Republican officials afraid of being the face of a "Never Trump" movement?	0
92	KATIE PACKER	I'm not sure.	0
93	KATIE PACKER	I'm not sure I can answer that question.	0
94	KATIE PACKER	I think that a lot of them frankly are sort of hoping upon hope that this goes another direction and that they don't alienate the supporters of Trump in the process.	0
95	KATIE PACKER	But certainly, there are a lot of people behind closed doors that are expressing real concern.	0
96	CHUCK TODD	Because they tell you one thing.	0
97	CHUCK TODD	And then you say, "Great, tell the people."	0
98	KATIE PACKER	Sure--	0
99	CHUCK TODD	And they’re like "Well, geez, I've got scheduling commitments."	0
100	KATIE PACKER	Well, these are smart people.	0
101	KATIE PACKER	And they understand that with Trump at the top of the ticket, we not only lose the White House, we definitely lose the Senate, we very likely lose the House, and we probably lose elections for a generation because we have somebody that’s known to be a sexist, very likely a racist at the top of our ticket, and it's very damaging to the party.	0
102	CHUCK TODD	Michael Steele, you and I have had conversations.	0
103	CHUCK TODD	You seem to be in a different place here, that yeah, you're not enthusiastic about him, but you're accepting the idea that he's going to be the nominee.	0
104	MICHAEL STEELE	Yeah, look, this has been a process that has unfolded, starting, going back to June of last year.	0
105	MICHAEL STEELE	And all that time, there have been a myriad of efforts and opportunities to stop Trump.	0
106	MICHAEL STEELE	But they haven't worked.	0
107	MICHAEL STEELE	Why?	0
108	MICHAEL STEELE	And the one thing about these movements and the folks that we're talking about seem to don't understand or be able to answer the question, why do people continue to vote for him?	0
109	MICHAEL STEELE	What is it about what he's saying and doing that still attracts the core base of the G.O.P.	0
110	MICHAEL STEELE	?	0
111	MICHAEL STEELE	Yes, it's 35 percent, 45 percent, whatever, it's less than 50 percent.	0
112	MICHAEL STEELE	But when when you look at the totality of the movement and the effort that he's put out there, there is a response to it.	0
113	MICHAEL STEELE	So why aren't they responding to Kasich?	0
114	MICHAEL STEELE	Why aren't they responding to Cruz?	0
115	MICHAEL STEELE	Why aren't they winning and Trump is?	0
116	MICHAEL STEELE	And that's the core question that nobody in Washington seems to want to wrap their head around.	0
117	MICHAEL STEELE	Which is why Donald Trump is in the space he's in.	0
118	CHUCK TODD	Katie, I guess you seem to be running, The Hill I think captured it really well, they had a headline that said, "Never Trump," in quotes, referring to your group, essentially, your goals are colliding with the goals of Kasich and Cruz.	0
119	CHUCK TODD	And we saw it here, you know?	0
120	CHUCK TODD	Cruz has the best shot in Indiana, so you're hoping Kasich doesn't campaign there.	0
121	CHUCK TODD	Kasich has the best shot at Maryland, you're hoping Cruz doesn't campaign there.	0
122	CHUCK TODD	But the two campaigns aren't listening.	0
123	KATIE PACKER	Well, and that's a frustration for sure.	0
124	KATIE PACKER	What we've seen historically though is by this point in time, the election does come down to two candidates.	0
125	KATIE PACKER	It was Romney and Santorum, it was McCain and Romney.	0
126	KATIE PACKER	And at that point in time, somebody begins to coalesce support.	0
127	KATIE PACKER	Somebody begins to win a majority.	0
128	KATIE PACKER	Trump is nowhere near that.	0
129	KATIE PACKER	If you look at McCain and Romney's numbers as they progressed through the primaries, they were ramping up.	0
130	KATIE PACKER	Trump is in a total flat-line.	0
131	CHUCK TODD	That’s fair, but Cruz and Kasich have not been able to galvanize either side.	0
132	KATIE PACKER	Absolutely, absolutely.	0
133	KATIE PACKER	And it's a total frustration.	0
134	KATIE PACKER	But, our message is, let's take it to the convention.	0
135	KATIE PACKER	Let's let this process play itself out.	0
136	KATIE PACKER	If you don't like Ted Cruz and you don't want to vote for him, that's okay.	0
137	KATIE PACKER	You're not going to give this to him by voting for him.	0
138	KATIE PACKER	He's not going to get to 1,237 before the convention.	0
139	KATIE PACKER	But let's do what we can to get this to an open convention, and then duke it out.	0
140	CHUCK TODD	Michael Steele, and I want to bring in the panel after this.	0
141	CHUCK TODD	But it was Chairman Priebus this week that I felt like started to wave the white flag when he said, "We're not going to make any rules changes."	0
142	CHUCK TODD	If the party wanted to stop Trump, why not make a rules change?	0
143	MICHAEL STEELE	Yeah, that's effectively how you would do it.	0
144	MICHAEL STEELE	I mean, look, we saw them do it to Ron Paul in 2012.	0
145	CHUCK TODD	If they want to stop somebody, they can.	0
146	MICHAEL STEELE	If they can stop someone, they can stop him.	0
147	CHUCK TODD	They chose not to?	0
148	MICHAEL STEELE	But it goes back to what Katie was saying.	0
149	MICHAEL STEELE	They recognize that what Donald Trump has done is galvanized a whole new level of voter out there.	0
150	MICHAEL STEELE	Folks who've sat on their behinds for the last six, eight years, not participated, now coming out.	0
151	MICHAEL STEELE	But the other thing to keep in mind is just because Cruz and Kasich are at 51 percent together, don't assume that those voters, Trump isn't their second choice either.	0
152	MICHAEL STEELE	So don't assume that that 51 percent is going to be there should one of them drop out.	0
153	CHUCK TODD	Let me bring in the panel, and they can start to bother you with some questions.	0
154	CHUCK TODD	Nicolle Wallace, of course, Republican strategist and NBC News analyst, former President Bush/John McCain strategist.	0
155	CHUCK TODD	Jose Diaz-Balart, a colleague of mine both at NBC News and Telemundo, Robert Costa of The Washington Post, and Joy-Ann Reid, also a colleague of mine at MSNBC.	0
156	CHUCK TODD	Nicolle, you've been in acceptance mode of Trump for quite some time.	0
157	NICOLLE WALLACE	Yes, thanks to you and your colleagues I have had to live out all five stages in weepy real time.	0
158	NICOLLE WALLACE	I think that one of the-- I'm very sympathetic to what you're trying to do.	0
159	NICOLLE WALLACE	I think that one of the challenges is that the solution to the problem that you rightfully diagnose isn't any more appealing than the problem itself.	0
160	NICOLLE WALLACE	Republicans aren’t any more enthusiastic or more optimistic about the outcome of Cruz at the top of the ticket.	0
161	NICOLLE WALLACE	So what do you say to them?	0
162	KATIE PACKER	Well, I would say just what I said to Chuck.	0
163	KATIE PACKER	That the goal here is to drive this to an open convention and--	0
164	NICOLLE WALLACE	And skip Trump and skip Cruz and get to door number three?	0
165	KATIE PACKER	Potentially.	0
166	KATIE PACKER	Potentially.	0
167	KATIE PACKER	If you're not happy with any of the choices, the last time we had a convention like this was 1976.	0
168	KATIE PACKER	But it was very different, because everybody was virtually in one camp or the other.	0
169	KATIE PACKER	There are a lot of people that are in none of these camps.	0
170	KATIE PACKER	And to those voters, we’d say, "If that's the camp you're in, you're not happy with your choices, then vote for Cruz, vote for Kasich, because that'll get what's behind door number two."	0
171	KATIE PACKER	And we don't know what that is, but it's better than the option we have in front of us.	0
172	JOY-ANN REID	But isn't the main problem here though that any of the solutions that you would come up with that's not Donald Trump, is going to take that, let’s say it's 30 to 40 percent of the Republican base that are white, blue-collar voters, white working-class voters who are clearly enraged, primarily at the Republican party.	0
173	JOY-ANN REID	Any outcome but Trump may alienate those voters in such a way that it dooms the party in November no matter what.	0
174	JOY-ANN REID	I think the problem is, is that the party is the problem.	0
175	JOY-ANN REID	It's the 40-some odd years of promises that were not fulfilled even by the tea party, because eventually they even went Washington to a lot of these voters.	0
176	JOY-ANN REID	So I think that these voters are so angry that you almost have to give them Donald Trump in order to satiate that anger.	0
177	KATIE PACKER	Well, I think that's naïve though to suggest that you're not going to have 35 to 40 percent of the party that stays home if it's Trump.	0
178	KATIE PACKER	I mean, we've got real data to demonstrate that, that there's real frustration, and people saying, "I'm not going to vote for Trump in the general election, even though I'm a Republican."	0
179	JOSE DIAZ-BALART	Let's remember that this process started with about 200,000 Republicans running for president.	0
180	JOSE DIAZ-BALART	There were more people running for president than you see at a quinces party in Little Havana.	0
181	JOSE DIAZ-BALART	And yet, the voters during that process, whittled it down to three, and really, down to one.	0
182	JOSE DIAZ-BALART	So this concept that now somebody else is going to come up, there were 17.	0
183	JOSE DIAZ-BALART	There was African-Americans, there was two Latinos, there were, you know, women.	0
184	JOSE DIAZ-BALART	And yet, it's all down to Trump.	0
185	JOSE DIAZ-BALART	Let's not forget that.	0
186	ROBERT COSTA	And the scene at the RNC, it told us so much.	0
187	ROBERT COSTA	I was standing outside of the meeting room when Paul Manafort stepped out.	0
188	ROBERT COSTA	And I was looking at my notebook, what I had recorded that day, and it was all RNC members giving out their business card to the Trump campaign.	0
189	ROBERT COSTA	In Hollywood, Florida, white sand beaches, everyone's relaxed.	0
190	CHUCK TODD	Hey, Mr. Manafort, don't forget my name.	0
191	CHUCK TODD	Really?	0
192	CHUCK TODD	Oh my word.	0
193	ROBERT COSTA	And I sat up in Priebus’ suite.	0
194	ROBERT COSTA	And what is the first thing he told The Washington Post was he had a great phone call with Donald Trump this past week congratulated him on New York.	0
195	CHUCK TODD	All right, let me throw something out here in a bit.	0
196	CHUCK TODD	Do we believe there has been a new Trump?	0
197	CHUCK TODD	I'm going to play for you.	0
198	CHUCK TODD	Cruz doesn't believe it, and then you'll hear Trump's response to it.	0
199	CHUCK TODD	Here it is.	0
200	SYSTEM	(BEGIN TAPE)	0
201	SEN. TED CRUZ	They were saying, these are their words, that all of this was just a show.	0
202	SEN. TED CRUZ	That he doesn't believe anything he's saying.	0
203	SEN. TED CRUZ	He's just trying to fool gullible voters, and he's not going to do any of it.	0
204	SEN. TED CRUZ	He's not going to build a wall, he's not going to deport anyone.	0
205	SEN. TED CRUZ	He is telling us he is lying to us.	0
206	SYSTEM	(END TAPE)	0
207	CHUCK TODD	Well, Trump, of course, the new Trump, was the old Trump.	0
208	CHUCK TODD	Take a listen.	0
209	SYSTEM	(BEGIN TAPE)	0
210	DONALD TRUMP	So Cruz picks it up, Lying Ted, he goes, "Donald Trump is kidding everybody.	0
211	DONALD TRUMP	He's different on the trail."	0
212	DONALD TRUMP	He said, "And he said that he's going to do things differently and he's not going to build the wall."	0
213	DONALD TRUMP	What the hell does this have to do with the wall?	0
214	DONALD TRUMP	Believe me.	0
215	DONALD TRUMP	I'm building the wall.	0
216	SYSTEM	(END TAPE)	0
217	CHUCK TODD	All right, Michael and Katie, I want to hear from the two of you first.	0
218	CHUCK TODD	Michael, is this a new Trump?	0
219	CHUCK TODD	I mean, Paul Manafort promised a more-- Trump with more depth.	0
220	CHUCK TODD	That didn't stop, that sounded like the old Trump.	0
221	MICHAEL STEELE	Well, it's new wine and an old wine skin.	0
222	MICHAEL STEELE	I mean, basically, the outward side of Trump is still going to be Trump.	0
223	MICHAEL STEELE	He's still going to go riff on the party and riff on the politics of the party.	0
224	MICHAEL STEELE	But when he needs to be in that zone, where he wants to specifically communicate, I think you will see it.	0
225	MICHAEL STEELE	And I think we've already seen him at times try to do that.	0
226	MICHAEL STEELE	Where he uses the notes and he--	0
227	CHUCK TODD	But he mocked it.	0
228	CHUCK TODD	Okay, Katie, well, look--	0
229	CHUCK TODD	MICHAEL STEELE	0
230	CHUCK TODD	He mocks it but that’s what people like Chuck, they like that.	0
231	CHUCK TODD	Listen to what he said about being presidential.	0
232	CHUCK TODD	Watch this.	0
233	SYSTEM	(BEGIN TAPE)	0
234	DONALD TRUMP	Presidential's easy.	0
235	DONALD TRUMP	You know what presidential is?	0
236	DONALD TRUMP	I walk on.	0
237	DONALD TRUMP	So you walk on.	0
238	DONALD TRUMP	Ladies and gentlemen, of Waterbury.	0
239	DONALD TRUMP	It is a great honor to be with you this morning.	0
240	SYSTEM	(END TAPE)	0
241	CHUCK TODD	Katie, he mocks the process.	0
242	CHUCK TODD	And he actually mocked his own guy, Manafort.	0
243	KATIE PACKER	Well, it would be funny if it weren't so frightening.	0
244	KATIE PACKER	I mean, this is a guy that's running to be the leader of the free world.	0
245	KATIE PACKER	He's not running to play a part on a reality TV show.	0
246	KATIE PACKER	And I do think he's mocking the process.	0
247	KATIE PACKER	And the notion that you're going to take a guy that's 70 years old, and he's going to adopt a whole new personality, he doesn't even know that what he's doing is offensive.	0
248	KATIE PACKER	So the idea that he's going to somehow change it along the way is impossible.	0
249	JOY-ANN REID	You can’t beat something with nothing.	0
250	JOY-ANN REID	You cannot beat something with nothing.	0
251	JOY-ANN REID	And at the end of the day, you can say that, you know, that these voters are diluted, that they're being taken in by show biz, but you cannot beat that with nothing.	0
252	JOY-ANN REID	And the problem with the "Stop Trump" movement is that you're offering nothing.	0
253	JOY-ANN REID	You're saying, "Just don't give us this guy because there's something wrong with him."	0
254	JOY-ANN REID	Well, obviously the voters who are preferring him are saying he's offering an Occam's-razor solution to their existential crisis of economic want, of feeling that they've been left behind by the party.	0
255	JOY-ANN REID	He's offering them something.	0
256	JOY-ANN REID	And your side is offering them nothing.	0
257	ROBERT COSTA	Most Republican strategists though, they worry.	0
258	ROBERT COSTA	As much as Trump changes his temperament, in a general election, he still has to carry the burden of the Muslim ban, he still has to carry the burden of his policies on the wall.	0
259	ROBERT COSTA	Those are not temperamental changes.	0
260	NICOLLE WALLACE	And the real conversations, you both know this, that are taking place are how we lose.	0
261	NICOLLE WALLACE	Do we lose with Cruz?	0
262	NICOLLE WALLACE	I mean the reality we can try to-- We can try to spin it into something else.	0
263	NICOLLE WALLACE	It's do we lose with Cruz, who we know will not appeal to the people who determine the outcome of elections, largely women, largely independents and swing voters, or do we roll the dice on Trump?	0
264	NICOLLE WALLACE	Trump's strength is pulling the curtain down on the process.	0
265	NICOLLE WALLACE	The process is a lot of poof.	0
266	CHUCK TODD	All right.	0
267	CHUCK TODD	Final question and word to the two of you, Michael I'll go with you, and Katie get the last word.	0
268	CHUCK TODD	John Kasich is the only candidate we can find that beats Hillary Clinton in our Pennsylvania poll.	0
269	NICOLLE WALLACE	Doesn’t lose--	0
270	MICHAEL STEELE	That's it.	0
271	CHUCK TODD	Hillary Clinton has double digits over both Cruz and Trump.	0
272	CHUCK TODD	Why isn't this "Stop Trump" movement uniting behind the one guy that has the electability argument in his favor?	0
273	CHUCK TODD	First Michael, then Katie.	0
274	MICHAEL STEELE	I have to admit, that is the one thing that has made no sense to me at all, because the guy standing in front of you, which every poll shows can defeat, and that I've heard from Democrats who say, "Look, if you'd nominate Kasich, this becomes a different race for me in November."	0
275	MICHAEL STEELE	And yet, the "Stop Trump" folks want to focus on people who cannot win a general election against Hillary Clinton.	0
276	MICHAEL STEELE	It is befuddling.	0
277	MICHAEL STEELE	Which is why again, the voters look at what they're doing and go--	0
278	CHUCK TODD	All right, so Katie, last word.	0
279	CHUCK TODD	Why aren't you guys the pro-Kasich movement, not the "Stop Trump" movement?	0
280	KATIE PACKER	The "Stop Trump" movement is about keeping Donald Trump's head down and keeping the pressure on him and hopefully one of these candidates will do what they need to do to draw voters to them.	0
281	KATIE PACKER	But the reality is, that in a state like Indiana, Kasich isn't going to beat Trump.	0
282	KATIE PACKER	So we have to put our support behind Cruz and hope that those voters come together behind Cruz.	0
283	KATIE PACKER	You know, it's not a choice that we'd like to be making.	0
284	KATIE PACKER	I don't know why our voters ignored the 15 candidates that might have been able to beat Hillary Clinton and narrowed it down to a couple that probably can't.	0
285	KATIE PACKER	But that's where we are.	0
286	CHUCK TODD	Four years from now, we will have the quinces caucus first.	0
287	CHUCK TODD	I think that is the one thing we’ve determined there.	0
288	CHUCK TODD	Anyway, Katie Packer, Michael Steele, thanks very much.	0
289	CHUCK TODD	I think Katie, you got bombarded here left and right on your movement.	0
290	CHUCK TODD	But you took it well.	0
291	CHUCK TODD	Thank you for joining us.	0
292	KATIE PACKER	Thank you.	0
293	CHUCK TODD	When we come back, my sit-down with a conciliatory of sorts, Bernie Sanders of Vermont.	0
294	CHUCK TODD	Take a listen.	0
295	SYSTEM	(BEGIN TAPE)	0
296	SEN. BERNIE SANDERS	Look at the polls.	0
297	SEN. BERNIE SANDERS	Bernie Sanders runs better against Trump in almost all of these polls than does Hillary Clinton.	0
298	SYSTEM	(END TAPE)	0
299	CHUCK TODD	If you listen carefully to this interview, you might hear Sanders accept that he's not likely to be the Democratic nominee.	0
300	CHUCK TODD	Coming up.	0
301	CHUCK TODD	Welcome back.	0
302	CHUCK TODD	Bernie Sanders is spending the weekend campaigning in Maryland ahead of Tuesday's primary.	0
303	CHUCK TODD	It's been a tough week for Sanders.	0
304	CHUCK TODD	His chances of beating Hillary Clinton received a near fatal blow after he was convincingly beaten in the New York primary.	0
305	CHUCK TODD	Sanders has vowed to fight on.	0
306	CHUCK TODD	But he needs to win the remaining contest by some big margins to have any chance of catching Clinton at the Philadelphia convention.	0
307	CHUCK TODD	I sat down with him in Baltimore yesterday, and I started by asking him about his differences that still remain with Hillary Clinton.	0
308	SYSTEM	(BEGIN TAPE)	0
309	CHUCK TODD	Hillary Clinton the other night in her victory speech after New York said this:	0
310	SYSTEM	(BEGIN TAPE)	0
311	SEC. HILLARY CLINTON	And to all the people who supported Senator Sanders, I believe there is much more that unites us than divides us.	0
312	SYSTEM	(END TAPE)	0
313	CHUCK TODD	Do you agree with her on that?	0
314	SEN. BERNIE SANDERS	I think there is a lot that unites us.	0
315	SEN. BERNIE SANDERS	I think there's a lot that divides us.	0
316	SEN. BERNIE SANDERS	I think the fact that all of us are in agreement that Donald Trump would be a disaster for this country if he became president unites us, the fact that we understand, for example, that climate change is real while our Republican opponents ignore that reality unites us.	0
317	SEN. BERNIE SANDERS	But on the other hand, I think what divides us is the understanding on the part of millions of people who are supporting my candidacy that it really is too late for establishment politics and establishment economics.	0
318	SEN. BERNIE SANDERS	We have to deal in a very substantive way with income and wealth inequality.	0
319	SEN. BERNIE SANDERS	We need to understand why we're the only major country on Earth not to guarantee health care to all people, not to have paid family and medical leave.	0
320	SEN. BERNIE SANDERS	And that we have to deal aggressively with a corrupt campaign finance system which allows big money interest to buy elections.	0
321	SEN. BERNIE SANDERS	Those are areas I think of difference.	0
322	CHUCK TODD	Well, it's interesting you say they're differences.	0
323	CHUCK TODD	If she were here she'd say, "I agree with you on campaign finance.	0
324	CHUCK TODD	I agree with you on Medicare, I agree with you on--"	0
325	SEN. BERNIE SANDERS	No, no.	0
326	SEN. BERNIE SANDERS	You're-- no, but that's not--	0
327	CHUCK TODD	She would say she would agree with those goals.	0
328	SEN. BERNIE SANDERS	Well, but we all agree with goals.	0
329	SEN. BERNIE SANDERS	I mean, I suppose everybody has general understanding, you know, that we don't want to see a nuclear war and so forth.	0
330	SEN. BERNIE SANDERS	But I think that I believe in a Medicare for all, single-payer program that guarantees health care to all people.	0
331	SEN. BERNIE SANDERS	I have not only shown by talk, but by walking the walk that you can run a campaign -- a strong, winning, national campaign -- getting millions of individuals to make small campaign contributions.	0
332	SEN. BERNIE SANDERS	That has not been Secretary Clinton's approach.	0
333	SEN. BERNIE SANDERS	We have not been dependent on big money interest.	0
334	SEN. BERNIE SANDERS	And that is perhaps the most important thing.	0
335	SEN. BERNIE SANDERS	Because I'm not quite sure that you're ever going to change this country, you're ever going to take on the billionaire class, ever going to create a government that works for the middle class, so long as you're dependent on Wall Street money and big money interest.	0
336	CHUCK TODD	You wake up the day after the convention and you're not the nominee.	0
337	CHUCK TODD	Do you look in the mirror and say, "This was a successful campaign?"	0
338	SEN. BERNIE SANDERS	Well, obviously our goal now is while we have a narrow path to victory, we're going to fight for and through that path.	0
339	SEN. BERNIE SANDERS	We hope to win.	0
340	SEN. BERNIE SANDERS	But I think the fact that we have shown that there is massive dissatisfaction in this country with the status quo, that people want to think bigger, that people understand that when you have 20 people in this country owning more wealth than the bottom 150 million people, that people are showing in this campaign-- the desire to stand up and fight back.	0
341	SEN. BERNIE SANDERS	The fact that we have brought millions of young people who I think many of the pundits had thought were kind of apathetic, not interested in politics.	0
342	SEN. BERNIE SANDERS	Well, you know what?	0
343	SEN. BERNIE SANDERS	These young people know they're the future of this country.	0
344	SEN. BERNIE SANDERS	They want to shape the future.	0
345	SEN. BERNIE SANDERS	And I'm very proud that we have been able to bring them into the political process.	0
346	CHUCK TODD	You just described it as a narrow path.	0
347	SEN. BERNIE SANDERS	Yes.	0
348	CHUCK TODD	So what is it?	0
349	CHUCK TODD	Explain it to me?	0
350	SEN. BERNIE SANDERS	Well, we're going to have to do-- obviously win big in the number of the primaries and caucuses that yet remain.	0
351	SEN. BERNIE SANDERS	A poll came out yesterday that has us within striking distance in California, a larger state.	0
352	SEN. BERNIE SANDERS	I think we can do very well in California.	0
353	CHUCK TODD	But it starts with winning some states here, winning a Pennsylvania, winning Connecticut--	0
354	SEN. BERNIE SANDERS	It means-- well, bottom line, the arithmetic is you got to win delegates, that's what it means.	0
355	SEN. BERNIE SANDERS	We have won twelve--	0
356	CHUCK TODD	And in this case, it means big primary wins?	0
357	SEN. BERNIE SANDERS	Right.	0
358	SEN. BERNIE SANDERS	We have won 1,200 delegates.	0
359	SEN. BERNIE SANDERS	And by the way, when we talk about the campaign, you know, we started this campaign 60, 65 points behind Secretary Clinton in national polls.	0
360	SEN. BERNIE SANDERS	Now many of these polls have us even, a few points ahead perhaps.	0
361	SEN. BERNIE SANDERS	Many of the polls now show us-- and this is an important point, Chuck -- when Democrats look out into the horizon, what unites us is the understanding that Trump would be a disastrous president.	0
362	SEN. BERNIE SANDERS	Look at the polls.	0
363	SEN. BERNIE SANDERS	Bernie Sanders runs better against Trump in almost all of these polls than does Hillary Clinton.	0
364	CHUCK TODD	But she runs well, too?	0
365	SEN. BERNIE SANDERS	She runs well, too.	0
366	SEN. BERNIE SANDERS	But, well, in some --	0
367	CHUCK TODD	I mean, so does that hurt your cause a little bit?	0
368	CHUCK TODD	It's like, yeah, you do better.	0
369	CHUCK TODD	But she runs pretty well, too.	0
370	SEN. BERNIE SANDERS	Well, I think the answer is depending on the polls.	0
371	SEN. BERNIE SANDERS	And polls are polls.	0
372	SEN. BERNIE SANDERS	I don't want to go crazy on polls.	0
373	SEN. BERNIE SANDERS	But I think many Democrats are convinced that what is most important is defeating Donald Trump.	0
374	SEN. BERNIE SANDERS	And I believe the objective evidence is that I'm the stronger candidate.	0
375	CHUCK TODD	So, I was just going to say, at the end of the day, you feel like you were given a fair shot at this nomination?	0
376	SEN. BERNIE SANDERS	Yeah, we took advantage of the opportunities in front of us.	0
377	SEN. BERNIE SANDERS	We are in this race.	0
378	SEN. BERNIE SANDERS	We are not writing our obituary.	0
379	SEN. BERNIE SANDERS	We're in this race to California, and we're proud of the campaign we ran.	0
380	CHUCK TODD	We crunched some interesting numbers here.	0
381	CHUCK TODD	So 17 of the 25 states with the highest levels of income inequality have held primaries.	0
382	CHUCK TODD	Sixteen of those 17 states have been won by Hillary Clinton, not by you.	0
383	CHUCK TODD	Why?	0
384	SEN. BERNIE SANDERS	Well, because poor people don't vote.	1
385	SEN. BERNIE SANDERS	I mean, that's just a fact.	0
386	SEN. BERNIE SANDERS	That's a sad reality of American society.	0
387	SEN. BERNIE SANDERS	And that's what we have to transform.	0
388	SEN. BERNIE SANDERS	We have one-- as you know, one of the lowest voter turnouts of any major country on Earth.	0
389	SEN. BERNIE SANDERS	We have done a good job bringing young people in.	0
390	SEN. BERNIE SANDERS	I think we have done-- had some success with lower income people.	0
391	SEN. BERNIE SANDERS	But in America today -- the last election in 2014, 80 percent of poor people did not vote.	0
392	CHUCK TODD	You feel as if you could find a way to get people that are fighting at that poverty line-- you know, either just below it or just above it, if they were getting engaged in the process, you would do better?	0
393	SEN. BERNIE SANDERS	If we can significantly increase voter turnout so that low income people and working people and young people participated in the political process, if we got a voter turnout of 75 percent, this country would be radically transformed.	0
394	CHUCK TODD	President Obama's getting a little bit of criticism in the U.K. for speaking out against-- he doesn't want to see British citizens vote to take the U.K. out of the E.U.	0
395	CHUCK TODD	First of all, where are you on that?	0
396	CHUCK TODD	And second of all, would you insert yourself into this campaign?	0
397	SEN. BERNIE SANDERS	Well, let the British people make their own decisions on that.	0
398	CHUCK TODD	So you don't think the president should be commenting on this?	0
399	SEN. BERNIE SANDERS	The President has every right to comment on what he wants.	0
400	SEN. BERNIE SANDERS	Though I'm a candidate for president right now, I'm not going to.	0
401	CHUCK TODD	So as president you would not have a--?	0
402	SEN. BERNIE SANDERS	I didn't say that, no.	0
403	SEN. BERNIE SANDERS	He is the president.	0
404	SEN. BERNIE SANDERS	I am a candidate for president.	0
405	CHUCK TODD	Right, do you have a view on this?	0
406	SEN. BERNIE SANDERS	Not a significant one, no.	0
407	SEN. BERNIE SANDERS	Let the people-- I think the European Union obviously is a very, very important institution.	0
408	SEN. BERNIE SANDERS	But ultimately, the people of Britain are going to make their own decisions.	0
409	SEN. BERNIE SANDERS	I would hope that they stay in, but that's their decision.	0
410	CHUCK TODD	Why are you against the consumption tax-- the soda tax in Philadelphia--	0
411	SEN. BERNIE SANDERS	I'll tell you why.	0
412	CHUCK TODD	--that would pay for Pre-K?	0
413	CHUCK TODD	Universal Pre-K. Hillary Clinton's for it.	0
414	SEN. BERNIE SANDERS	Yes.	0
415	SEN. BERNIE SANDERS	I'll tell you why.	0
416	SEN. BERNIE SANDERS	Because it is a totally regressive tax and right now, at a time of massive income and wealth inequality, when the wealthy are getting wealthier-- many of them pay an effective tax rate lower than working people.	0
417	SEN. BERNIE SANDERS	You have large multinational corporations not paying a nickel in federal taxes.	0
418	SEN. BERNIE SANDERS	That's where you get the money.	0
419	SEN. BERNIE SANDERS	Somebody's making $20,000 a year and they buy a bottle of soda, I don't think you charge them $0.30 more for that bottle of soda.	0
420	SEN. BERNIE SANDERS	Now, the goal of universal childcare--	0
421	CHUCK TODD	Pre-K, yeah--	0
422	SEN. BERNIE SANDERS	--absolutely something that I strongly agree.	0
423	SEN. BERNIE SANDERS	And I applaud the mayor there for coming forward.	0
424	SEN. BERNIE SANDERS	But raise the money in a way that is progressive, not on the backs of low income or working people.	0
425	CHUCK TODD	So you must be against cigarette taxes, too, then?	0
426	SEN. BERNIE SANDERS	No, I'm not.	0
427	SEN. BERNIE SANDERS	Cigarette taxes are-- there's a difference between cigarettes and soda.	0
428	SEN. BERNIE SANDERS	I am aware of the obesity problem in this country.	0
429	CHUCK TODD	I don't think Michael Bloomberg would agree with you on that one?	0
430	SEN. BERNIE SANDERS	Well, that's fine.	0
431	SEN. BERNIE SANDERS	He can have his point of view.	0
432	SEN. BERNIE SANDERS	But cigarettes are causing cancer, obviously, and a dozen other diseases.	0
433	SEN. BERNIE SANDERS	And there is almost the question as to why it remains a legal product in this country.	0
434	CHUCK TODD	Let me wrap up the question this way.	0
435	CHUCK TODD	Do you feel as if Hillary Clinton is the Democratic nominee and you're not, but Donald Trump is the opponent, do you have a responsibility to do what it takes to get your voters to support Hillary Clinton?	0
436	SEN. BERNIE SANDERS	I will do everything that I can to make certain that Donald Trump is not elected president.	0
437	SEN. BERNIE SANDERS	But if that scenario plays out, the major responsibility will be on Secretary Clinton to convince all people, not just my supporters, that she is the kind of president this country needs to represent working people in this country, to take on the big money interests who have so much power, to fight for what the American people want.	0
438	CHUCK TODD	Your supporters are, for the most part, very skeptical of Hillary Clinton.	0
439	CHUCK TODD	Very, very skeptical.	0
440	CHUCK TODD	Tougher on her, frankly, than you ever are.	0
441	CHUCK TODD	You know, people talk about all this back and forth.	0
442	CHUCK TODD	What do you think she-- what's your advice to her on winning your voters over?	0
443	SEN. BERNIE SANDERS	Well, I think she's going to have to be very explicit about supporting a program, which stands up for the needs of the middle class and working families, which, most importantly, makes it clear that she is prepared to take on Wall Street in a very clear way, take on the billionaire class, come up with a program that makes health care for all in this country a right within the next several years.	0
444	SEN. BERNIE SANDERS	I think those are some of the issues she's going to have to bring forth.	0
445	SYSTEM	(END TAPE)	0
446	CHUCK TODD	So did we just hear, intentionally or not, the Bernie Sanders exit interview?	0
447	CHUCK TODD	We'll get to that later in the show.	0
448	CHUCK TODD	Also, why did Donald Trump's magic number to win the nomination, why is it that it might be lower than 1,237?	0
449	CHUCK TODD	I’ll explain.	0
450	CHUCK TODD	And we are back.	0
451	CHUCK TODD	Data download time.	0
452	CHUCK TODD	We've been hearing a lot about the so-called magic number of delegates needed to secure the Republican nomination.	0
453	CHUCK TODD	It's 1,237.	0
454	CHUCK TODD	It's pretty much tattooed on the foreheads of everybody in the NBC News political unit.	0
455	CHUCK TODD	But Trump's magic number could be less.	0
456	CHUCK TODD	In fact, it could be a lot less, because he's likely to pick up these so-called unbound delegates.	0
457	CHUCK TODD	These are the people that can do whatever they want on the first ballot.	0
458	CHUCK TODD	They can vote for whoever, regardless of how their state voted.	0
459	CHUCK TODD	So how does it all happen?	0
460	CHUCK TODD	Here's our back-of-the-napkin math.	0
461	CHUCK TODD	We're going to start with this magic number of 1,237, and then subtract from that the number of unbound delegates that we're estimating Trump's likely to pick up.	0
462	CHUCK TODD	So we're going to start with nine unbound delegates from the collection of Colorado, Wyoming, and Guam contests.	0
463	CHUCK TODD	They haven't been awarded to a single candidate yet.	0
464	CHUCK TODD	So in our breakdown, we're going to assume that Trump can negotiate his way to three of those folks.	0
465	CHUCK TODD	Now, there are the Rubio delegates.	0
466	CHUCK TODD	NBC has reported that 34 of the delegates Marco Rubio earned during the primary season will be unbound on that first ballot, negotiating his way to some Rubio supporters, we think Trump can pick up seven of those folks.	0
467	CHUCK TODD	Not a lot, but a handful.	0
468	CHUCK TODD	Well, now we go to the 54 Pennsylvania delegates who won't be bound to any candidate after Tuesday's primary.	0
469	CHUCK TODD	About 60 percent of those running for delegates have indicated publicly that they will either support Trump or whoever wins their congressional district.	0
470	CHUCK TODD	Which if you believe our polls is likely to be Trump.	0
471	CHUCK TODD	So we're going to put 34 out of those 54 delegates in Trump's column for now.	0
472	CHUCK TODD	So all told, that's 44 unbound delegates Trump could pick up, a conservative estimate mind you.	0
473	CHUCK TODD	So subtract that from 1,237, and we get a new magic number: 1,193.	0
474	CHUCK TODD	So that's probably the maximum that he needs here.	0
475	CHUCK TODD	That's the real number Trump will need before he starts picking up what we think are those unbound delegates.	0
476	CHUCK TODD	Now again, we think this is a conservative estimates.	0
477	CHUCK TODD	It's possible Trump can win more of these votes.	0
478	CHUCK TODD	Because Trump's expected to sweep all five states on Tuesday.	0
479	CHUCK TODD	And then momentum could take over.	0
480	CHUCK TODD	He could pick up more of those folks and then his magic number could drop from 1,193 down to 1,150 after the last primary.	0
481	CHUCK TODD	And in fact, it may be very hard for the "Stop Trump" movement to keep Trump below 1,150.	0
482	CHUCK TODD	Either way, while Trump technically still needs 1,237 in that first ballot, it's clear he does not need that many pledged delegates by the end of voting in June.	0
483	CHUCK TODD	And that's what makes the "Stop Trump" forces even more nervous.	0
484	CHUCK TODD	Up next, Donald Trump's campaign says he's just been playing the part of a candidate.	0
485	CHUCK TODD	That we'll soon see a new Trump.	0
486	CHUCK TODD	Well, if that's true, how do you explain this moment yesterday?	0
487	SYSTEM	(BEGIN TAPE)	0
488	DONALD TRUMP	He can't win with the popular vote, because he's got zero personality, because he lies like a thief, okay?	0
489	SYSTEM	(END TAPE)	0
490	CHUCK TODD	Welcome back.	0
491	CHUCK TODD	The panel is back.	0
492	CHUCK TODD	Let's start quickly with some reaction to Bernie Sanders.	0
493	CHUCK TODD	Joy?	0
494	CHUCK TODD	Poor people don't vote?	0
495	JOY-ANN REID	Yeah.	0
496	CHUCK TODD	An interesting new excuse from Bernie Sanders.	0
497	CHUCK TODD	And then some Hillary supporters have pointed it out, "Oh, first it was the South, now it's poor people."	0
498	JOY-ANN REID	Yeah.	0
499	JOY-ANN REID	And it really got a huge reaction, just when the preview of the sound came out in just my social media world.	0
500	JOY-ANN REID	And I think part of the problem is the word you use, the excuses.	0
501	JOY-ANN REID	That you're saying you're running a political revolution, but you keep parsing, "Well, we don't have just the right kind of voter motivated enough or informed enough.	0
502	JOY-ANN REID	You know, they're too old-fashioned, or they're too conservative."	0
503	JOY-ANN REID	And in this case, sort of putting it off on poverty, I don't think he meant to disparage, clearly, people, and impugn people who are poor.	0
504	JOY-ANN REID	But the idea is if you are truly running a revolutionary movement, based on lifting up people at the bottom, then they should be hearing your message or you might not be doing something correctly.	0
505	JOSE DIAZ-BALART	You know, look, I think at another time and in another conversation, this would have been an important conversation to have.	0
506	JOSE DIAZ-BALART	I think it's a fact of life that in the United States, the amount of people who were citizens in the United States, who aren't registered to vote, and could vote, are huge.	0
507	JOSE DIAZ-BALART	And this country would look differently if from our elected official if everybody voted.	0
508	JOSE DIAZ-BALART	I mean look, at Telemundo, we have a campaign, yo resido , it's bringing in people to register to vote.	0
509	JOSE DIAZ-BALART	It would be a different country if everyone was registered to vote.	0
510	JOSE DIAZ-BALART	It's just that conversation at the time you had it.	0
511	NICOLLE WALLACE	But the only people who give excuses for why they're losing are the people who should probably be out.	0
512	NICOLLE WALLACE	And I can't understand why there isn't more pressure on him to get out.	0
513	NICOLLE WALLACE	When she was--	0
514	CHUCK TODD	You're surprised?	0
515	NICOLLE WALLACE	When she was in his position in 2008, there was a crushing cacophony of voices from the media, and the dem--	0
516	JOY-ANN REID	She didn’t, though.	0
517	NICOLLE WALLACE	Well, she did.	0
518	NICOLLE WALLACE	And she was still winning.	0
519	JOY-ANN REID	She didn’t.	0
520	JOY-ANN REID	She went to the end.	0
521	NICOLLE WALLACE	I can't imagine what reason there is, other than chaos--	0
522	JOSE DIAZ-BALART	Forty million plus a month?	0
523	NICOLLE WALLACE	Other than the chaos on the Republican side for him staying in and doing her damage.	0
524	NICOLLE WALLACE	He's not making--	0
525	JOSE DIAZ-BALART	Nicolle, he's getting millions and millions of dollars in small contributions.	0
526	JOSE DIAZ-BALART	NICOLLE WALLACE	0
527	JOSE DIAZ-BALART	To what end?	0
528	JOSE DIAZ-BALART	He can't be the nominee, and he can't win.	0
529	JOSE DIAZ-BALART	People believe in him.	0
530	NICOLLE WALLACE	But to call her unqualified, to question her ethics is something that if the Republicans were in a stronger position, this is where the despair on the Republican side comes--	0
531	JOY-ANN REID	But you know what, the reason for him to continue though is that you still have, you have a small number of states left.	0
532	JOY-ANN REID	But we've come this far in the process.	0
533	JOY-ANN REID	And I think the voters--	0
534	NICOLLE WALLACE	There's nowhere to go, Joy!	0
535	JOSE DIAZ-BALART	What about California?	0
536	JOSE DIAZ-BALART	California.	0
537	JOY-ANN REID	Democratic voters have made it very clear that they all want to weigh in.	0
538	JOY-ANN REID	I think, you know what?	0
539	JOY-ANN REID	Let's give people a chance--	0
540	NICOLLE WALLACE	That’s fine.	0
541	JOSE DIAZ-BALART	It's called democracy.	0
542	JOY-ANN REID	It's called democracy.	0
543	NICOLLE WALLACE	He's not going to be the nominee.	0
544	CHUCK TODD	Go ahead, Bob.	0
545	ROBERT COSTA	If you listen to the end of the interview, he's quite positive about the future of the party.	0
546	CHUCK TODD	He's oddly conciliatory at the end.	0
547	CHUCK TODD	Yes.	0
548	ROBERT COSTA	He's conciliatory.	0
549	ROBERT COSTA	And he said--	0
550	NICOLLE WALLACE	Because he knows he’s going to lose.	0
551	ROBERT COSTA	But he's also willing to offer the branch to Secretary Clinton and say, "If she wins the nomination, Trump is the main target for Democrats, and the party will come together."	0
552	ROBERT COSTA	And I was just struck by that moment at the end, in spite of all the animus we've seen, that's his closing statement.	0
553	CHUCK TODD	By the way, I want to go, let's turn back to the Republicans here.	0
554	CHUCK TODD	I want to play, it was interesting to see, is Trump pivoting to a general election, and it had to do with comments he made about Caitlyn Jenner and bathrooms.	0
555	CHUCK TODD	First of all, let me play that excerpt from The Today Show town hall earlier in the week.	0
556	SYSTEM	(BEGIN TAPE)	0
557	DONALD TRUMP	You leave it the way it is.	0
558	DONALD TRUMP	There have been very few complaints the way it is.	0
559	DONALD TRUMP	People go, they use the bathroom that they feel is appropriate.	0
560	DONALD TRUMP	There has been so little trouble.	0
561	MATT LAUER	So if Caitlyn Jenner were to walk into Trump Tower and want to use the bathroom, you would be fine with her using any bathroom she chooses?	0
562	DONALD TRUMP	That is correct.	0
563	SYSTEM	(END TAPE)	0
564	CHUCK TODD	Well, the Cruz campaign has unloaded on those comments.	0
565	CHUCK TODD	Nicolle, let me show it to you.	0
566	SYSTEM	(BEGIN TAPE)	0
567	ANNOUNCER	Guess who's joined the ranks of the P.C.	0
568	ANNOUNCER	police?	0
569	DONALD TRUMP	People go, they use the bathroom that they feel is appropriate.	0
570	ANNOUNCER	Donald Trump can't be trusted with common sense.	0
571	ANNOUNCER	Why would we trust him in the White House?	0
572	SYSTEM	(END TAPE)	0
573	CHUCK TODD	Nicolle, we haven't seen an attack ad from Cruz on Trump in a long time.	0
574	CHUCK TODD	It feels like it's been a while.	0
575	CHUCK TODD	And that's what he chose to do.	0
576	CHUCK TODD	Effective or no?	0
577	NICOLLE WALLACE	Well, here's where Trump is an insult wrapped in a riddle wrapped in an opportunity.	0
578	NICOLLE WALLACE	I mean, Trump's answer made so much sense, and I think what is also on the line in this cycle is the power and the saliency of social issues.	0
579	NICOLLE WALLACE	And I think if Trump wins, it delivers a massive blow to the idea that you have to be up and down on social issues to be the Republican nominee.	0
580	CHUCK TODD	I was just surprised by Cruz's decision to do that.	0
581	CHUCK TODD	Robert?	0
582	ROBERT COSTA	To be able to win these coming states, Cruz needs to rouse the social conservatives.	0
583	ROBERT COSTA	I think Trump's answer tells us a lot about how he would be in a general election.	0
584	ROBERT COSTA	This is someone who has not climbed the ladder, forming relationships with social conservatives along the way.	0
585	ROBERT COSTA	He's someone forged in New York's tabloid business culture, he has relationships with all kinds of people, he's not just someone who surrounds himself with Republicans and conservatives.	0
586	ROBERT COSTA	And that actually strangely worries Democrats, that he wouldn't be appealing to moderates.	0
587	CHUCK TODD	Joy-Ann, I'm going to have you chime in, but I want to play what Hillary Clinton, Hillary Clinton has a web video out, also using The Today Show moment to make a different point from Ted Cruz.	0
588	CHUCK TODD	Watch.	0
589	SYSTEM	(BEGIN TAPE)	0
590	DONALD TRUMP	I will be changing very rapidly.	0
591	DONALD TRUMP	I'm very capable of changing to anything I want to change to.	0
592	SYSTEM	(END TAPE)	0
593	CHUCK TODD	And then they go on to play it, and it's a very long thing, they want to call it an Etch-A-Sketch, in a reference to Mitt Romney--	0
594	JOY-ANN REID	I think it--	0
595	CHUCK TODD	--and Santorum back in the day.	0
596	JOY-ANN REID	Well, because Donald Trump is clearly, he has exposed the fact that a lot of the base of the Republican party are not movement conservatives who have spent their entire lives pouring over the doctrinaire minutia of conservative beliefs.	0
597	JOY-ANN REID	And what he said was common sense.	0
598	JOY-ANN REID	I think that is the big risk of Trump.	0
599	JOY-ANN REID	He could be anything in the general election.	0
600	JOY-ANN REID	He could pivot back on social issues to a place where he's not offending Democratic voters.	0
601	CHUCK TODD	Well, this is the thing--	0
602	NICOLLE WALLACE	But women--	0
603	JOY-ANN REID	But that’s on that, but he'll offend African Americans, women, Muslims, and everyone else, some issues--	0
604	JOSE DIAZ-BALART	Don’t forget, most of the immigrants across the border are rapists and murderers.	0
605	CHUCK TODD	But, I think what's fascinating is that--	0
606	JOSE DIAZ-BALART	That would come back.	0
607	JOY-ANN REID	And that would come back.	0
608	CHUCK TODD	The bathroom issue brought Cruz and Clinton together.	0
609	CHUCK TODD	Sort of.	0
610	NICOLLE WALLACE	But I think Trump's answer-- Trump’s answer got him a lot of credit with a lot of people.	0
611	CHUCK TODD	It did.	0
612	CHUCK TODD	All right, I've got to take a quick break.	0
613	CHUCK TODD	When we come back, U.S. insists there's no evidence that any high-level Saudi Arabian government officials played a role in plotting 9/11.	0
614	CHUCK TODD	So why does the American government refuse to release 28 pages of a congressional report that could tell a different story?	0
615	CHUCK TODD	President Obama's been on the world stage this week, meeting the Queen of England, and a future king, Prince George even stayed up past his bedtime to meet the President.	0
616	CHUCK TODD	But he got a somewhat chilly reception early in the week in Saudi Arabia, where he was greeted on the tarmac by a relatively minor member of the royal family.	0
617	CHUCK TODD	Just the governor of Riyadh, roughly the equivalent of the United States sending a local governor to greet a major foreign leader when they land on U.S. soil.	0
618	CHUCK TODD	U.S./Saudi relations are strained, to put it mildly, at the moment.	0
619	CHUCK TODD	With renewed calls in Washington to declassify 28 pages of a congressional report on 9/11 that some believe allege some direct links to the Arab kingdom when it comes to the 9/11 attacks.	0
620	CHUCK TODD	It's a link the Saudis have strenuously denied for years.	0
621	CHUCK TODD	Well, I'm joined by one of the chief proponents of declassifying those 28 pages, former Senator Bob Graham of Florida.	0
622	CHUCK TODD	He served as co-chair of that congressional inquiry, was chairman of the intelligence committee for that period of time, a familiar face at that period of time.	0
623	CHUCK TODD	Senator Graham, welcome back to Meet the Press.	0
624	SEN. BOB GRAHAM	Thank you, Chuck.	0
625	CHUCK TODD	All right.	0
626	CHUCK TODD	Let's go right to the specifics of these 28 pages.	0
627	CHUCK TODD	What is in them that the American-- high levels of American officials and Saudi officials fear will change things if they become public?	0
628	SEN. BOB GRAHAM	Chuck, to me, the most important unanswered question of 9/11 is did these 19 people conduct this very sophisticated plot alone, or were they supported?	0
629	SEN. BOB GRAHAM	I think it's implausible to think that people who couldn't speak English, had never been in the United States before, as a group were not well-educated could have done that.	0
630	SEN. BOB GRAHAM	So who was the most likely entity to have provided them that support?	0
631	SEN. BOB GRAHAM	And I think all the evidence points to Saudi Arabia.	0
632	SEN. BOB GRAHAM	We know that Saudi Arabia started Al Qaeda.	0
633	SEN. BOB GRAHAM	It was a creation of Saudi-- of Saudi Arabia..	0
634	CHUCK TODD	And when you say Saudi Arabia, are you saying the government?	0
635	CHUCK TODD	Or are you saying wealthy individuals who happen to be Saudi Arabian?	0
636	SEN. BOB GRAHAM	That is a very murky line.	0
637	SEN. BOB GRAHAM	Saudi Arabia has made it murky by its own legal action.	0
638	SEN. BOB GRAHAM	Whenever a U.S. group sues a Saudi Arabian entity, whether it’s a bank, a foundation, a charity, immediately, the defense of sovereign immunity is raised.	0
639	SEN. BOB GRAHAM	The Saudis don't recognize the difference between a royal decision and a societal decision in the same way that other countries might.	0
640	SEN. BOB GRAHAM	So I think it covers a broad range, from the highest ranks of the kingdom through these, what would be private entities.	0
641	CHUCK TODD	Okay.	0
642	CHUCK TODD	If this gets released publicly, and again, I know you don't want to say what's in it, you don't want to-- but let me ask you this.	0
643	CHUCK TODD	One description that has been made of these 28 pages is that it's basically an initial police report that if you looked at it, you would say, "Wow, we should investigate that, that, that and that more."	0
644	CHUCK TODD	Is that the best way to describe this?	0
645	SEN. BOB GRAHAM	No.	0
646	SEN. BOB GRAHAM	This report was 850 pages.	0
647	SEN. BOB GRAHAM	This is 28 pages out of that.	0
648	SEN. BOB GRAHAM	There's been no questions raised about the professionalism and quality of the other 820 pages of this report.	0
649	SEN. BOB GRAHAM	And this chapter followed the same standards that they did.	0
650	SEN. BOB GRAHAM	Instead of debating what might be there, why don't we let the American people read the 28 pages, and the other thousands of documents that have been withheld that relate to the Saudi involvement in 9/11.	0
651	SEN. BOB GRAHAM	And then make up their own mind.	0
652	CHUCK TODD	What keeps this from-- why do I feel like candidate Barack Obama or Senator Barack Obama might be in a different place?	0
653	CHUCK TODD	What is it within the minute somebody gets into the executive branch, Republican or Democrat, there is this consensus publicly to protect Saudi Arabia?	0
654	SEN. BOB GRAHAM	I think it goes back to the fact that 60 years ago, Franklin Roosevelt and the King of Saudi Arabia entered into a special relationship.	0
655	SEN. BOB GRAHAM	We provided them with security, they provided us with petroleum.	0
656	SEN. BOB GRAHAM	And that has affected the culture and the attitude around this relationship.	0
657	SEN. BOB GRAHAM	But I think it's fundamentally changed, it's changing almost on a daily basis, as we are less dependent on the Saudis for petroleum, as some of the things that the Saudis are doing are so dramatically adverse to our interests, such as training the next generation of the young terrorists in their mosque in schools -- their madrasas.	0
658	SEN. BOB GRAHAM	The schism between the United States and Saudi Arabia is now very apparent.	0
659	SEN. BOB GRAHAM	And I think this is the time to inject the truth of that relationship in the process of deciding what we should be doing in the future.	0
660	CHUCK TODD	The president, can he order the declassification on his own?	0
661	SEN. BOB GRAHAM	Yes.	0
662	SEN. BOB GRAHAM	The president has the full responsibility and the authority to do so.	0
663	SEN. BOB GRAHAM	And I hope that he will do so and again, not only for these 28 pages, but there are 80,000 documents in a federal courtroom in Fort Lauderdale, Florida, relative to an investigation that took place on a relationship between Mohamed Atta, the leader of the 19--	0
664	CHUCK TODD	Right.	0
665	SEN. BOB GRAHAM	--and two of his henchmen, and a prominent Saudi family living in Sarasota.	0
666	CHUCK TODD	On a scale of one to ten, the release of these pages, how would you rate the impact on U.S. - Saudi relations if they go public?	0
667	SEN. BOB GRAHAM	7.838.	0
668	CHUCK TODD	Very accurate there.	0
669	CHUCK TODD	So pretty, you think it will have a high level negative impact?	0
670	SEN. BOB GRAHAM	Yes.	0
671	CHUCK TODD	All right, Senator Bob Graham, I'm going to leave it there.	0
672	CHUCK TODD	You'll see, you think you'll get it done?	0
673	CHUCK TODD	You think you'll get these released?	0
674	SEN. BOB GRAHAM	I think so.	0
675	SEN. BOB GRAHAM	The President's staff at least has said that they will make a decision by June.	0
676	SEN. BOB GRAHAM	And I hope that decision is to honor the American people and make it available.	0
677	CHUCK TODD	Senator Bob Graham, thanks for coming in.	0
678	CHUCK TODD	Good to see you, sir.	0
679	SEN. BOB GRAHAM	Thanks, Chuck.	0
680	CHUCK TODD	We'll be back in just 45 seconds, a little endgame segment.	0
681	CHUCK TODD	And the game that at least gets played late in presidential primary campaign, veep stakes.	0
682	CHUCK TODD	It's a weird one this year.	0
683	CHUCK TODD	Who will Hillary Clinton pick as a running mate?	0
684	CHUCK TODD	We'll be right back.	0
685	CHUCK TODD	Endgame time, the panel is here.	0
686	CHUCK TODD	Boy, part of me wants to delve more into the Saudi thing.	0
687	CHUCK TODD	You know, there's a lot there.	0
688	CHUCK TODD	But let's go to The New York Times threw out the first of the veepstakes when it comes to at least Hillary Clinton.	0
689	CHUCK TODD	And I think we have an idea of what the Hillary Clinton short list is, and then the people that they have to publicly say they're vetting.	0
690	CHUCK TODD	Let me put up the first five that were mentioned, because this feels like an actual Clinton official saying, "This is who the first five preferences are."	0
691	CHUCK TODD	The two Virginia senators and former governors, Tim Kaine and Mark Warner, obvious Virginia swing state.	0
692	CHUCK TODD	Sherrod Brown, progressive activist, and from a swing state in Ohio.	0
693	CHUCK TODD	Former Governor Deval Patrick of Massachusetts, somebody that many Obama people wish ran for president.	0
694	CHUCK TODD	And the Labor Secretary Tom Perez, who Joy, I want to start with you, and I want to start with him.	0
695	CHUCK TODD	Because he has basically earned his way onto the Clinton campaign's decision to make him on the shortlist.	0
696	CHUCK TODD	This came from a Clinton official.	0
697	CHUCK TODD	And it was Perez that they put on there initially.	0
698	CHUCK TODD	You're not hearing as much about Julián Castro, the HUD secretary that everybody fell in love with as the Latino V.P.	0
699	CHUCK TODD	of the future.	0
700	JOY-ANN REID	Yeah, and I think with Julián Castro, I think maybe the idea of the age, sort of the juxtaposition of him with Hillary Clinton,	0
701	CHUCK TODD	Too much so?	0
702	JOY-ANN REID	Tom Perez is somebody is very much respected by Obama world, clearly.	0
703	JOY-ANN REID	And so I think that there is this thinking that either the Clinton campaign, in just in sort of talking to the Clinton world, that they either feel like they need to have a Latino to pair with him, to galvanize the Latino electorate, or they need to fix what you could call their "white male" problem.	0
704	JOY-ANN REID	And go with somebody that is a progressive white male like a Sherrod Brown or like an Al Franken even, somebody like that that would be outside the box that could help her there.	0
705	CHUCK TODD	Let me put up, I should put on that the Clinton campaign then said, "Oh sure, we might look at Elizabeth Warren."	0
706	CHUCK TODD	She's on this list.	0
707	CHUCK TODD	There were other names that were thrown on there, Julián Castro, Elizabeth Warren, I think publicly have to get vetted for political reasons.	0
708	CHUCK TODD	Somebody threw out an Amy Klobuchar, Cory Booker, senator from New Jersey.	0
709	CHUCK TODD	And then there was Bill Nelson, which I may have made, and it seemed to be thrown in there, Jose, you're the Floridian here, but it was--	0
710	JOSE DIAZ-BALART	For Florida.	0
711	CHUCK TODD	For Florida, but it was thrown in for another reason.	0
712	CHUCK TODD	Apparently, Hillary Clinton loves the idea that both Bush and Obama have had running mates who basically were not going to pursue the presidency while being vice president.	0
713	CHUCK TODD	And she kind of liked that.	0
714	JOSE DIAZ-BALART	That's interesting.	0
715	JOSE DIAZ-BALART	I think Ross Perot said when he was running for president that in his corporate life, he never hired anybody who didn't want his job, because that's the way they all grew.	0
716	JOSE DIAZ-BALART	This is the antithesis of that.	0
717	JOSE DIAZ-BALART	You don't want to hire someone who wants your job.	0
718	JOSE DIAZ-BALART	And maybe that would be someone like Senator Nelson of Florida.	0
719	JOSE DIAZ-BALART	But don't rule out Secretary Castro either.	0
720	JOSE DIAZ-BALART	He's an extremely charismatic person.	0
721	JOSE DIAZ-BALART	And I've got to tell you something, Tim Kaine speaks perfect Spanish, reaches out to the community through, the Hispanic community through Telemundo regularly.	0
722	JOSE DIAZ-BALART	These are people who may be hidden, have hidden weapons.	0
723	CHUCK TODD	I'm hoping it's Brown, because I can do a Sherrod Brown.	0
724	CHUCK TODD	Just for impersonation.	0
725	CHUCK TODD	Deval Patrick though, that was intriguing to me.	0
726	NICOLLE WALLACE	The identity politics just reek of incredible cynicism to me.	0
727	CHUCK TODD	Oh, and you don't think we're going to see identity politics on your side?	0
728	NICOLLE WALLACE	Well listen, the debate on the Republican side isn't who will they pick, it's who would do it.	0
729	NICOLLE WALLACE	I mean, I'm sorry, we're in a totally different place.	0
730	NICOLLE WALLACE	Being honest.	0
731	NICOLLE WALLACE	But the identity, this is where Republicans pull their hair, there's such an opportunity on the Republican side, because this is all about identity politics.	0
732	NICOLLE WALLACE	It feels very cynical, it feels very Clinton-esque.	0
733	JOY-ANN REID	Wait a minute, the entire Marco Rubio boomlet was about identity politics and about saying, "If we just throw a Latino at the electorate, it will mesmerize Hispanics."	0
734	NICOLLE WALLACE	You saw how it ended, Joy.	0
735	NICOLLE WALLACE	Republicans don't fall for it.	0
736	JOY-ANN REID	But Republicans ostentatiously did identity politics.	0
737	CHUCK TODD	Well no, I think she's right.	0
738	CHUCK TODD	The leadership did, the voters rejected it.	0
739	CHUCK TODD	Robert, where is running mate going on the Republican side?	0
740	ROBERT COSTA	In 1976, Ronald Reagan running against the incumbent president, Gerald Ford, picked Richard Schweiker of Pennsylvania heading into the convention.	0
741	ROBERT COSTA	Down at the RNC, a lot of the RNC members and campaign associates were saying Cruz and Kasich are considering picking a running mate heading into Cleveland to try to get a bounce for their campaigns.	0
742	CHUCK TODD	All right.	0
743	CHUCK TODD	Well, that is going to be fun.	0
744	CHUCK TODD	We get four veepstakes instead of two.	0
745	CHUCK TODD	Anyway you guys are terrific.	0
746	CHUCK TODD	I appreciate it.	0
747	CHUCK TODD	Finally though, in memory of Prince, Bruce Springsteen started his show last night by playing a Prince classic, Purple Rain.	0
748	CHUCK TODD	So we're going to end our broadcast the same way, with Bruce playing Prince.	0
749	CHUCK TODD	And of course, as always if it's Sunday, it's Meet the Press.	0