20160211_democrats_milwuakee.tsv

1	WOODRUFF	Good evening, and thank you.	0
2	WOODRUFF	We are happy to welcome you to Milwaukee for this Democratic debate.	0
3	WOODRUFF	We are especially pleased to thank our partners at Facebook, who have helped us set up a vibrant conversation among voters who are undecided.	0
4	WOODRUFF	And tonight you're going to hear some of their questions for the candidates.	0
5	WOODRUFF	And you can follow along at home on the PBS NewsHour page on Facebook.	0
6	WOODRUFF	We also want to thank our hosts, the University of Wisconsin, Milwaukee, on whose campus we meet, here in the beautiful Helen Bader Concert Hall.	0
7	IFILL	We want to also extend our warm thanks to Milwaukee Public Radio and Milwaukee Public Television, as well as all of our friends at the PBS member stations across the country tuning in tonight.	0
8	IFILL	This is the sixth time the Democrats have met face to face.	0
9	IFILL	Each time, we learn more about them and the presidents they say they want to be.	0
10	IFILL	You know you're watching — whether you're a Democrat, a Republican, or neither — because you believe the outcome of the election is important to you.	0
11	IFILL	And we believe that, too.	0
12	IFILL	With that, let's welcome the candidates to the stage.	0
13	IFILL	Senator Bernie Sanders of Vermont.	0
14	SYSTEM	[ applause ]	0
15	WOODRUFF	Welcome, Senator, great to see you.	0
16	WOODRUFF	And former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton.	0
17	SYSTEM	[ applause ]	0
18	WOODRUFF	Very good to be here with you.	0
19	CLINTON	Thank you.	0
20	IFILL	Welcome to you both.	0
21	WOODRUFF	Now, a word about format.	0
22	WOODRUFF	There will be two short breaks, and the rules are simple: 90 seconds for each answer and 30 seconds for the other candidate to respond.	0
23	IFILL	With Iowa and New Hampshire behind us, we are now broadening the conversation to America's heartland and beyond, including here in Wisconsin.	0
24	IFILL	Now let's turn to the candidates for their opening statements.	0
25	IFILL	The order was decided by coin toss.	0
26	IFILL	And, Senator Sanders, you go first.	0
27	SANDERS	Well, Gwen and Judy, thank you very much for hosting this event.	0
28	SANDERS	And, PBS, thank you.	0
29	SANDERS	Nine months ago, our campaign began.	0
30	SANDERS	And when it began, we had no political organization, no money, and not much name recognition outside of the state of Vermont.	0
31	SANDERS	A lot has happened in nine months.	0
32	SANDERS	And what has happened is, I think, the American people have responded to a series of basic truths, and that is that we have today a campaign finance system which is corrupt, which is undermining American democracy, which allows Wall Street and billionaires to pour huge sums of money into the political process to elect the candidates of their choice.	0
33	SANDERS	And aligned with a corrupt campaign finance system is a rigged economy.	0
34	SANDERS	And that's an economy where ordinary Americans are working longer hours for low wagers.	0
35	SANDERS	They are worried to death about the future of their kids.	0
36	SANDERS	And yet they are seeing almost all new income and all new wealth going to the top 1 percent.	0
37	SANDERS	And then in addition to that, the American people are looking around and they see a broken criminal justice system.	0
38	SANDERS	They see more people in jail in the United States of America than any other country on earth, 2.2 million.	0
39	SANDERS	We're spending $80 billion a year locking up fellow Americans.	0
40	SANDERS	They see kids getting arrested for marijuana, getting in prison, getting a criminal record, while they see executives on Wall Street who pay billions of dollars in settlements and get no prosecution at all.	0
41	SANDERS	No criminal records for them.	0
42	SANDERS	I think what our campaign is indicating is that the American people are tired of establishment politics, tired of establishment economics.	0
43	SANDERS	They want a political revolution in which millions of Americans stand up, come together, not let the Trumps of the world divide us, and say, you know what, in this great country, we need a government that represents all of us, not just a handful of wealthy campaign contributors.	0
44	SANDERS	Thank you.	0
45	IFILL	Thank you, Senator Sanders.	0
46	SYSTEM	[ applause ]	0
47	IFILL	Thank you, Senator Sanders.	0
48	IFILL	Secretary Clinton.	0
49	CLINTON	I'm running for president to knock down all the barriers that are holding Americans back, and to rebuild the ladders of opportunity that will give every American a chance to advance, especially those who have been left out and left behind.	0
50	CLINTON	I know a lot of Americans are angry about the economy.	0
51	CLINTON	And for good cause.	0
52	CLINTON	Americans haven't had a raise in 15 years.	1
53	CLINTON	There aren't enough good-paying jobs, especially for young people.	0
54	CLINTON	And yes, the economy is rigged in favor of those at the top.	0
55	CLINTON	We both agree that we have to get unaccountable money out of our political system and that we have to do much more to ensure that Wall Street never wrecks main street again.	0
56	CLINTON	But I want to go further.	0
57	CLINTON	I want to tackle those barriers that stand in the way of too many Americans right now.	0
58	CLINTON	African-Americans who face discrimination in the job market, education, housing, and the criminal justice system.	0
59	CLINTON	Hardworking immigrant families living in fear, who should be brought out of the shadows so they and their children can have a better future.	0
60	CLINTON	Guaranteeing that women's work finally gets the pay, the equal pay that we deserve.	0
61	CLINTON	I think America can only live up to its potential when we make sure that every American has a chance to live up to his or her potential.	0
62	CLINTON	That will be my mission as president.	0
63	CLINTON	And I think together we will make progress.	0
64	WOODRUFF	Thank you both.	0
65	SYSTEM	[ applause ]	0
66	WOODRUFF	Thank you both.	0
67	WOODRUFF	And we'll be right back after a short break to begin questions.	0
68	SYSTEM	[ commercial break ]	0
69	WOODRUFF	And, welcome back to this PBS Newshour debate, Democratic debate, here in Milwaukee.	0
70	WOODRUFF	Let's get right to the questions.	0
71	WOODRUFF	Senator Sanders, to you first.	0
72	WOODRUFF	Coming off the results in Iowa and New Hampshire, there are many voters who are taking a closer look at you, and your ideas, and they're asking how big a role do you foresee for the federal government?	0
73	WOODRUFF	It's already spending 21% of the entire U.S. economy.	0
74	WOODRUFF	How much larger would government be in the lives of Americans under a Sanders presidency?	0
75	SANDERS	Well, to put that in a context, Judy, I think we have to understand that in the last 30 years in this country there has been a massive transfer of wealth going from the hands of working families into the top one-tenth of 1% whose percentage of wealth has doubled.	0
76	SANDERS	In other words, the very rich are getting richer, almost everybody is going — getting poorer.	0
77	SANDERS	What I believe is the United States, in fact, should join the rest of the industrialized world and guarantee healthcare to all people.	0
78	SANDERS	Our Medicare for all single-payer proposal will save the average middle class family $5,000 a year.	0
79	SANDERS	I do believe that in the year 2016 we have to look in terms of public education as colleges as part of public education making public colleges and universities tuition free.	0
80	SANDERS	I believe that when real unemployment is close to 10%, and when our infrastructure, our roads, our bridges, our water systems, Flint, Michigan comes to mind.	0
81	SANDERS	Our waste water plants, our rail, our airports, in many places are disintegrating.	0
82	SANDERS	Yeah, we can create 13 million jobs by rebuilding our infrastructure at a cost of a trillion dollars.	0
83	WOODRUFF	But, my question is how big would government be?	0
84	WOODRUFF	Would there be any limit on the size of the role of government...	0
85	SANDERS	... Of course there will be a limit, but when today you have massive levels of income and wealth inequality, when the middle class is disappearing, you have the highest rate of child poverty of almost any major country on Earth.	0
86	SANDERS	Yes, in my view, the government of a democratic society has a moral responsibility to play a vital role in making sure all of our people have a decent standard of living.	0
87	CLINTON	Judy, I think that the best analysis that I've seen based on Senator Sanders plans is that it would probably increase the size of the federal government by about 40%, but what is most concerning to me is that in looking at the plans — let's take healthcare for example.	0
88	CLINTON	Last week in a CNN town hall, the Senator told a questioner that the questioner would spend about $500 dollars in taxes to get about $5,000 dollars in healthcare.	0
89	CLINTON	Every progressive economist who has analyzed that says that the numbers don't add up, and that's a promise that cannot be kept, and it's really important now that we are getting into the rest of the country that both of us are held to account for explaining what we are proposing because, especially with healthcare, this is not about math.	0
90	CLINTON	This is about people's lives, and we should level with the American people about what we can do to make sure they get quality affordable healthcare.	0
91	SANDERS	Well, let us level with the American people.	0
92	SANDERS	Secretary Clinton has been going around the country saying Bernie Sanders wants to dismantle the Affordable Care Act, people are going to lose their MedicAid, they're going to lose their CHIP program.	0
93	SANDERS	I have fought my entire life to make sure that healthcare is a right for all people.	0
94	SANDERS	We're not going to dismantle everything.	0
95	SANDERS	But, here is the truth.	0
96	SANDERS	Twenty-nine million people have no health insurance today in America.	0
97	SANDERS	We pay, by far, the highest prices in the world for prescription drugs.	1
98	SANDERS	One out of five Americans can't even afford the prescriptions their doctors are writing.	0
99	SANDERS	Millions of people have high deductibles and co-payments.	0
100	SANDERS	What I said, and let me repeat it, I don't know what economists Secretary Clinton is talking to, but what I have said, and let me repeat it, that yes, the middle — the family right in the middle of the economy would pay $500 dollars more in taxes, and get a reduction in their healthcare costs of $5,000 dollars.	0
101	SANDERS	In my view healthcare is a right of all people, not a privilege, and I will fight for that.	0
102	SYSTEM	[ applause ]	0
103	CLINTON	I can only say that we both share the goal of universal health care coverage.	0
104	CLINTON	You know, before it was called Obamacare, it was called Hillarycare.	0
105	CLINTON	And I took on the drug companies and I took on the insurance companies to try to get us universal health care coverage.	0
106	SYSTEM	[ applause ]	0
107	CLINTON	And why I am a staunch supporter of President Obama's principal accomplishment — namely the Affordable Care Act — is because I know how hard it was to get that done.	0
108	CLINTON	We are at 90 percent coverage.	0
109	CLINTON	We have to get the remaining 10.	0
110	CLINTON	I've set forth very specific plans about how to get costs down, especially prescription drug costs.	0
111	CLINTON	And it is difficult to in any way argue with the goal that we both share.	0
112	CLINTON	But I think the American people deserve to know specifically how this would work.	0
113	CLINTON	If it's Medicare for all, then you no longer have the Affordable Care Act, because the Affordable Care Act, as you know very well, is based on the insurance system, based on exchanges, based on a subsidy system.	0
114	CLINTON	The Children's Health Insurance Program, which I helped to create, which covers 8 million kids, is also a different kind of program.	0
115	CLINTON	So if you're having Medicare for all, single-payer, you need to level with people about what they will have at the end of the process you are proposing.	0
116	CLINTON	And based on every analysis that I can find by people who are sympathetic to the goal, the numbers don't add up, and many people will actually be worse off than they are right now.	0
117	IFILL	Final thought, Senator.	0
118	SANDERS	That is absolutely inaccurate.	0
119	SANDERS	Look, here is the reality, folks.	0
120	SANDERS	There is one major country on Earth that does not guarantee health care to all people.	0
121	SANDERS	There is one major country — the United States — which ends up spending almost three times per capita what they do in the U.K. guaranteeing health care to all people, 50 percent more than they do in France guaranteeing health care to all people, far more than our Canadian neighbors, who guarantee health care to all people.	0
122	SANDERS	Please do not tell me that in this country, if — and here's the if — we have the courage to take on the drug companies, and have the courage to take on the insurance companies, and the medical equipment suppliers, if we do that, yes, we can guarantee health care to all people in a much more cost effective way.	0
123	CLINTON	Well, let me just — let me just say, once again...	0
124	SYSTEM	[ applause ]	0
125	CLINTON	...that, having been in the trenches fighting for this, I believe strongly we have to guarantee health care.	0
126	CLINTON	I believe we are on the path to doing that.	0
127	CLINTON	The last thing we need is to throw our country into a contentious debate about health care again.	0
128	CLINTON	And we are not England.	0
129	CLINTON	We are not France.	0
130	CLINTON	We inherited a system that was set up during World War II; 170 million Americans get health insurance right now through their employers.	0
131	CLINTON	So what we have tried to do and what President Obama succeeded in doing was to build on the health care system we have, get us to 90 percent coverage.	0
132	CLINTON	We have to get the other 10 percent of the way to 100.	0
133	CLINTON	I far prefer that and the chances we have to be successful there than trying to start all over again, gridlocking our system, and trying to get from zero to 100 percent.	0
134	SYSTEM	[ applause ]	0
135	IFILL	I'd like to move along.	0
136	IFILL	I'd like to move along.	0
137	IFILL	Secretary Clinton, you might — you also have proposed fairly expansive ideas about government.	0
138	IFILL	You may remember this pledge from a State of the Union Address at which I believe you were present, in which these words were said: "The era of big government is over."	0
139	IFILL	You may remember that.	0
140	IFILL	When asked your feelings about the federal government this week, 61 percent of New Hampshire Democrats told exit pollsters that they are angry or at least dissatisfied.	0
141	IFILL	Given what you and Senator Sanders are proposing, an expanding government in almost every area of our lives, is it fair for Americans who fear government to fear you?	0
142	CLINTON	No.	0
143	CLINTON	But it is absolutely fair and necessary for Americans to vet both of our proposals, to ask the really hard questions about, what is it we think we can accomplish, why do we believe that, and what would be the results for the average American family?	0
144	CLINTON	In my case, whether it's health care, or getting us to debt-free tuition, or moving us toward paid family leave, I have been very specific about where I would raise the money, how much it would cost, and how I would move this agenda forward.	0
145	CLINTON	I've tried to be as specific to answer questions so that my proposals can be vetted, because I feel like we have to level with people for the very reason, Gwen, that you are mentioning.	0
146	CLINTON	There is a great deal of skepticism about the federal government.	0
147	CLINTON	I'm aware of that.	0
148	CLINTON	It comes from the right, from the left, from people on all sides of the political spectrum.	0
149	CLINTON	So we have a special obligation to make clear what we stand for, which is why I think we should not make promises we can't keep, because that will further, I think, alienate Americans from understanding and believing we can together make some real changes in people's lives.	0
150	IFILL	But I haven't heard either of you put a price tag on your — you say...	0
151	SYSTEM	[ crosstalk ]	0
152	CLINTON	I will put a price tag.	0
153	CLINTON	My price tag is about $100 billion a year.	0
154	CLINTON	And again, paid for.	0
155	CLINTON	And what I have said is I will not throw us further into debt.	0
156	CLINTON	I believe I can get the money that I need by taxing the wealthy, by closing loopholes, the things that we are way overdue for doing.	0
157	CLINTON	And I think once I'm in the White House we will have enough political capital to be able to do that.	0
158	CLINTON	But I am conscious of the fact that we have to also be very clear, especially with young people, about what kind of government is going to do what for them and what it will cost.	0
159	IFILL	Senator?	0
160	SANDERS	Well, Secretary Clinton, you're not in the White House yet.	0
161	SANDERS	And let us be clear that every proposal that I have introduced has been paid for.	0
162	SANDERS	For example, all right, who in America denies that we have an infrastructure that is crumbling?	0
163	SANDERS	Roads, bridges, water systems, wastewater plants, who denies that?	0
164	SANDERS	Who denies that real unemployment today, including those who have given up looking for work and are working part-time is close to 10 percent?	0
165	SANDERS	Who denies that African-American youth unemployment, real, is over 50 percent.	0
166	SANDERS	We need to create jobs.	0
167	SANDERS	So yes, I will do away with the outrageous loopholes that allow profitable multinational corporations to stash billions of dollars in the Cayman Islands and Bermuda and in a given year pay zero, zero in federal income tax.	0
168	SANDERS	Yes, I'm going to do away with that.	0
169	SANDERS	We will use those proceeds, a hundred billion a year, to invest in rebuilding our infrastructure.	0
170	SANDERS	Yes, I believe that as a result of the illegal behavior on Wall Street, that they are a Wall Street that drove this country into the worst economic downturn since the Great Recession — Great Depression.	0
171	SANDERS	Yes, I do believe that now after the American people bailed Wall Street out, yes, they should pay a Wall Street speculation tax so that we can make public colleges and universities tuition-free.	0
172	SANDERS	We bailed them out.	0
173	SANDERS	Now it is their time to help the middle class.	0
174	SYSTEM	[ applause ]	0
175	CLINTON	You know, I think, again, both of us share the goal of trying to make college affordable for all young Americans.	0
176	CLINTON	And I have set forth a compact that would do just that for debt-free tuition.	0
177	CLINTON	We differ, however, on a couple of key points.	0
178	CLINTON	One of them being that if you don't have some agreement within the system from states and from families and from students, it's hard to get to where we need to go.	0
179	CLINTON	And Senator Sanders's plan really rests on making sure that governors like Scott Walker contribute $23 billion on the first day to make college free.	0
180	CLINTON	I am a little skeptical about your governor actually caring enough about higher education to make any kind of commitment like that.	0
181	SYSTEM	[ applause ]	0
182	WOODRUFF	Next, we're going to...	0
183	SANDERS	A brief response.	0
184	WOODRUFF	Very brief, thank you.	0
185	SANDERS	Here is where we are with public education.	0
186	SANDERS	A 100, 150 years ago incredibly brave Americans said, you know what, working class kids, low income kids should not have to work in factories or on the farms.	0
187	SANDERS	Like rich kids, they deserve to get a free education.	0
188	SANDERS	And that free education of extraordinary accomplishment was from first grade to 12th grade.	0
189	SANDERS	The world has changed.	0
190	SANDERS	This is 2016.	0
191	SANDERS	In many ways, a college degree today is equivalent to what a high school degree was 50, 60 years ago.	0
192	SANDERS	So, yes, I do believe that when we talk about public education in America, today, in a rapidly changing world, we should have free tuition at public colleges and universities.	0
193	SANDERS	That should be a right of all Americans regardless of the income of their families.	0
194	SYSTEM	[ applause ]	0
195	WOODRUFF	Secretary Clinton, your campaign — you and your campaign have made a clear appeal to women voters.	0
196	WOODRUFF	You have talked repeatedly about the fact, we know you would be, if elected, the first woman president.	0
197	WOODRUFF	But in New Hampshire 55 percent of the women voters supported and voted for Senator Sanders.	0
198	WOODRUFF	What are women missing about you?	0
199	CLINTON	Well, first, Judy, I have spent my entire adult life working toward making sure that women are empowered to make their own choices, even if that choice is not to vote for me.	0
200	CLINTON	I believe that it's most important that we unleash the full potential of women and girls in our society.	0
201	CLINTON	And I feel very strongly that I have an agenda, I have a record that really does respond to a lot of the specific needs that the women in our country face.	0
202	CLINTON	So I'm going to keep making that case.	0
203	CLINTON	I'm going to keep making sure that everything I've done, everything that I stand for is going to be well known.	0
204	CLINTON	But I have no argument with anyone making up her mind about who to support.	0
205	CLINTON	I just hope that by the end of this campaign there will be a lot more supporting me.	0
206	CLINTON	That's what I'm working towards.	0
207	SYSTEM	[ applause ]	0
208	WOODRUFF	As you know, just quickly, as you know, your strong supporter, former Secretary of State Madeleine Albright, said the other day that there's a special place in Hell for women who don't support other women.	0
209	WOODRUFF	Do you agree with what she said?	0
210	CLINTON	Well, look, I think that she's been saying that for as long as I've known her, which is about 25 years.	0
211	CLINTON	But it doesn't change my view that we need to empower everyone, women and men, to make the best decisions in their minds that they can make.	0
212	CLINTON	That's what I've always stood for.	0
213	CLINTON	And when it comes to the issues that are really on the front lines as to whether we're going to have equal pay, paid family leave, some opportunity for, you know, women to go as far as their hard work and talent take them, I think that we still have some barriers to knock down, which is why that's at the core of my campaign.	0
214	CLINTON	I would note, just for a historic aside, somebody told me earlier today we've had like 200 presidential primary debates, and this is the first time there have been a majority of women on the stage.	0
215	CLINTON	So, you know, we'll take our progress wherever we can find it.	0
216	SYSTEM	[ applause ]	0
217	WOODRUFF	Senator Sanders, you're in the minority, but we still want to hear from you.	0
218	SYSTEM	[ laughter ]	0
219	SANDERS	Look, we are fighting for every vote that we can get from women, from men, straight, gay, African-Americans, Latinos, Asian-Americans.	0
220	SANDERS	We are trying to bring America together around an agenda that works for working families and the middle class.	0
221	SANDERS	I am very proud, if my memory is not correct — I think I am — that I have a lifetime — and I've been in Congress a few years — a lifetime 100 percent pro-choice voting record.	0
222	SANDERS	I am very proud that over the years we have had the support in my state of Vermont from very significant majorities of women.	0
223	SANDERS	I'm very proud that I support legislation that is currently in the Congress, got support of almost all progressive Democrats in the House and Senate, which says we will end the absurdity of women today making 79 cents on the dollar compared to men.	0
224	SANDERS	And we will join the rest of the other — the industrialized world in saying that paid family and medical leave should be a right of all working families.	0
225	SYSTEM	[ applause ]	0
226	IFILL	Senator, do you worry at all that you will be the instrument of thwarting history, as Senator Clinton keeps claiming, that she might be the first woman president?	0
227	SANDERS	Well, you know, I think, from a historical point of view, somebody with my background, somebody with my views, somebody who has spent his entire life taking on the big money interests, I think a Sanders victory would be of some historical accomplishment, as well.	0
228	SYSTEM	[ applause ]	0
229	CLINTON	You know, I have said — I have said many times, you know, I'm not asking people to support me because I'm a woman.	0
230	CLINTON	I'm asking people to support me because I think I'm the most qualified, experienced, and ready person to be the president and the commander-in-chief.	0
231	SYSTEM	[ applause ]	0
232	CLINTON	And I appreciate greatly Senator Sanders' voting record.	0
233	CLINTON	And I was very proud to get the endorsement of the Planned Parenthood Action Fund, because I've been a leader on these issues.	0
234	CLINTON	I have gone time and time again to take on the vested interests who would keep women's health care decisions the province of the government instead of women ourselves.	0
235	CLINTON	I'm very proud that NARAL endorsed me because when it comes to it we need a leader on women's issues.	0
236	CLINTON	Somebody who, yes, votes right, but much more than that, leads the efforts to protect the hard-fought gains that women have made, that, make no mistake about it, are under tremendous attack, not just by the Republican presidential candidates but by a whole national effort to try to set back women's rights.	0
237	CLINTON	So I'm asking women, I'm asking men, to support me because I'm ready to go into the White House on January 20th, 2017 and get to work on both domestic and foreign policy challenges.	0
238	SYSTEM	[ applause ]	0
239	WOODRUFF	Final comment.	0
240	SANDERS	Let me concur with the secretary, no question women's rights are under fierce attack all over this country.	0
241	SANDERS	And I will tell you something that really galls me.	0
242	SANDERS	I will not shock anybody to suggest that in politics there is occasionally a little bit of hypocrisy.	0
243	SANDERS	Just a little bit.	0
244	SANDERS	All over this country we have Republican candidates for president saying we hate the government.	0
245	SANDERS	Government is the enemy.	0
246	SANDERS	We're going to cut Social Security to help you.	0
247	SANDERS	We're going to cut Medicare and Medicaid, federal aid to education to help you, because the government is so terrible.	0
248	SANDERS	But, by the way, when it comes to a woman having to make a very personal choice, ah, in that case, my Republican colleagues love the government and want the government to make that choice for every woman in America.	0
249	SANDERS	If that's not hypocrisy, I don't know what hypocrisy is.	0
250	SYSTEM	[ applause ]	0
251	IFILL	Thank you both.	0
252	IFILL	We turn now to the first of several questions from our partners at Facebook.	0
253	IFILL	They were selected from a curated group of people we've been following of undecided voters.	0
254	IFILL	The first comes from Claudia Looze, a 54-year-old woman who works as a program manager at a public affairs cable network in Madison, Wisconsin.	0
255	IFILL	And she writes: "Wisconsin is number one in African-American male incarceration, according to a University of Wisconsin study.	0
256	IFILL	They found that Wisconsin's incarceration rate for black men, which is at 13 percent, was nearly double the country's rate.	0
257	IFILL	What can we do across the nation to address this?"	0
258	IFILL	Senator Sanders.	0
259	SANDERS	This is one of the great tragedies in our country today.	0
260	SANDERS	And we can no longer continue to sweep it under the rug.	0
261	SANDERS	It has to be dealt with.	0
262	SANDERS	Today a male African-American baby born today stands a one-in-four chance of ending up in jail.	0
263	SANDERS	That is beyond unspeakable.	0
264	SANDERS	So what we have to do is the radical reform of a broken criminal justice system.	0
265	SYSTEM	[ applause ]	0
266	SANDERS	What we have to do is end over-policing in African-American neighborhoods.	0
267	SANDERS	The reality is that both the African-American community and the white community do marijuana at about equal rates.	0
268	SANDERS	The reality is four times as many blacks get arrested for marijuana.	0
269	SANDERS	Truth is that far more blacks get stopped for traffic violations.	0
270	SANDERS	The truth is that sentencing for blacks is higher than for whites.	0
271	SANDERS	We need fundamental police reform, clearly, clearly, when we talk about a criminal justice system.	0
272	SANDERS	I would hope that we could all agree that we are sick and tired of seeing videos on television of unarmed people, often African-Americans, shot by police officers.	0
273	SANDERS	What we have got to do is make it clear that any police officer who breaks the law will, in fact, be held accountable.	0
274	SYSTEM	[ applause ]	0
275	CLINTON	You know, I completely agree with Senator Sanders.	0
276	CLINTON	The first speech I gave in this campaign back in April was about criminal justice reform and ending the era of mass incarceration.	0
277	CLINTON	The statistics from Wisconsin are particularly troubling, because it is the highest rate of incarceration for African-Americans in our nation, twice the national average.	0
278	CLINTON	And we know of the tragic, terrible event that lead to the death of Dontre Hamilton right here in Milwaukee, a young man unarmed, who should still be with us.	0
279	CLINTON	His family certainly believes that.	0
280	CLINTON	And so do I.	0
281	CLINTON	So we have work to do.	0
282	CLINTON	There have been some good recommendations about what needs to happen.	0
283	CLINTON	President Obama's policing commission came out with some.	0
284	CLINTON	I have fully endorsed those.	0
285	CLINTON	But we have to restore policing that will actually protect the communities that police officers are sworn to protect.	0
286	CLINTON	And, then we have to go after sentencing, and that's one of the problems here in Wisconsin because so much of what happened in the criminal justice system doesn't happen at the federal level, it happens at the state and local level.	0
287	CLINTON	But, I would also add this.	0
288	CLINTON	There are other racial discrepancies.	0
289	CLINTON	Really systemic racism in this state, as in others, education, in employment, in the kinds of factors that too often lead from a position where young people, particularly young men, are pushed out of school early, are denied employment opportunities.	0
290	CLINTON	So, when we talk about criminal justice reform, and ending the era of mass incarceration, we also have to talk about jobs, education, housing, and other ways of helping communities.	0
291	SYSTEM	[ applause ]	0
292	SANDERS	Nothing that Secretary Clinton said do I disagree with.	0
293	SANDERS	This mandatory sentencing, a very bad idea.	0
294	SANDERS	It takes away discretion from judges.	0
295	SANDERS	We have got to demilitarize local police departments so they do not look like occupying armies.	0
296	SYSTEM	[ applause ]	0
297	SANDERS	We have got to make sure that local police departments look like the communities they serve in their diversity.	0
298	SANDERS	And, where we are failing abysmally is in the very high rate of recidivism we see.	0
299	SANDERS	People are being released from jail without the education, without the job training, without the resources that they need to get their lives together, then they end up — we're shocked that they end up back in jail again.	0
300	SANDERS	So, we have a lot of work to do.	0
301	SANDERS	But, here is a pledge I've made throughout this campaign, and it's really not a very radical pledge.	0
302	SANDERS	When we have more people in jail, disproportionately African American and Latino, than China does, a communist authoritarian society four times our size.	0
303	SANDERS	Here's my promise, at the end of my first term as president we will not have more people in jail than any other country.	0
304	SANDERS	We will invest in education, and jobs for our kids, not incarceration and more jails.	0
305	SYSTEM	[ applause ]	0
306	WOODRUFF	Secretary Clinton, I was talking recently with a 23 year old black woman who voted for President Obama because she said she thought relations between the races would get better under his leadership, and his example.	0
307	WOODRUFF	Hardly anyone believes that they have.	0
308	WOODRUFF	Why do you think race relations would be better under a Clinton presidency?	0
309	WOODRUFF	What would you do that the nation's first African American has not been able to?	0
310	CLINTON	Well, I'm just not sure I agree completely with that assessment.	0
311	CLINTON	I think under President Obama we have seen a lot of advances, the Affordable Care Act has helped more African Americans than any other group to get insurance, to be taken care of, but we also know a lot more than we did.	0
312	CLINTON	We have a lot more social media, we have everybody with a cellphone.	0
313	CLINTON	So, we are seeing the dark side of the remaining systemic racism that we have to root out in our society.	0
314	CLINTON	I think President Obama has set a great example.	0
315	CLINTON	I think he has addressed a lot of these issues that have been quite difficult, but he has gone forward.	0
316	CLINTON	Now, what we have to do is to build on an honest conversation about where we go next.	0
317	CLINTON	We now have much more information about what must be done to fix our criminal justice system.	0
318	CLINTON	We now have some good models about how better to provide employment, housing and education.	0
319	CLINTON	I think what President Obama did was to exemplify the importance of this issue as our first African American president, and to address it both from the President's office, and through his advocacy, such as working with young men, and Mrs. Obama's work with young women.	0
320	CLINTON	But, we can't rest.	0
321	CLINTON	We have work to do, and we now know a lot more than we ever did before.	0
322	CLINTON	So, it's going to be my responsibility to make sure we move forward to solve these problems that are now out in the open.	0
323	CLINTON	Nobody can deny them.	0
324	CLINTON	To use the Justice Department, as we just saw, they have said they are going to sue Ferguson, that entered into a consent agreement, and then tried to back out.	0
325	CLINTON	So, we're going to enforce the law, we're going to change policing practices, we're going to change incarceration practices, but we're also going to emphasize education, jobs, and housing.	0
326	SYSTEM	[ applause ]	0
327	WOODRUFF	Senator Sanders?	0
328	SYSTEM	[ applause ]	0
329	SANDERS	Well, I think, Judy, what has to be appreciated is that, as a result of the disastrous and illegal behavior on Wall Street, millions of lives were hurt.	0
330	SANDERS	People lost their jobs, their homes, their life savings.	0
331	SANDERS	Turns out that the African-American community and the Latino community were hit especially hard.	0
332	SANDERS	As I understand it, the African-American community lost half of their wealth as a result of the Wall Street collapse.	1
333	SANDERS	So when you have childhood African-American poverty rates of 35 percent, when you have youth unemployment at 51 percent, when you have unbelievable rates of incarceration — which, by the way, leaves the children back home without a dad or even a mother — clearly, we are looking at institutional racism.	0
334	SANDERS	We are looking at an economy in which the rich get richer and the poor get poorer.	0
335	SANDERS	And sadly, in America today, in our economy, a whole lot of those poor people are African-American.	0
336	WOODRUFF	So race relation was be better under a Sanders presidency than they've been?	0
337	SANDERS	Absolutely, because what we will do is say, instead of giving tax breaks to billionaires, we are going to create millions of jobs for low-income kids so they're not hanging out on street corners.	0
338	SANDERS	We're going to make sure that those kids stay in school or are able to get a college education.	0
339	SANDERS	And I think when you give low-income kids — African-American, white, Latino kids — the opportunities to get their lives together, they are not going to end up in jail.	0
340	SANDERS	They're going to end up in the productive economy, which is where we want them.	0
341	SYSTEM	[ applause ]	0
342	IFILL	Let me turn this on its head, because when we talk about race in this country, we always talk about African-Americans, people of color.	0
343	IFILL	I want to talk about white people, OK?	0
344	SANDERS	White people?	0
345	IFILL	I know.	0
346	SYSTEM	[ laughter ]	0
347	IFILL	So many people will be surprised to find out that we are sitting in one of the most racially polarized metropolitan areas in the country.	0
348	IFILL	By the middle of this century, the nation is going to be majority nonwhite.	0
349	IFILL	Our public schools are already there.	0
350	IFILL	If working-class, white Americans are about to be outnumbered, are already underemployed in many cases, and one study found they are dying sooner, don't they have a reason to be resentful, Senator — Secretary Clinton?	0
351	CLINTON	Look, I am deeply concerned about what's happening in every community in America, and that includes white communities, where we are seeing an increase in alcoholism, addiction, earlier deaths.	0
352	CLINTON	People with a high school education or less are not even living as long as their parents lived.	0
353	CLINTON	This is a remarkable and horrifying fact.	0
354	CLINTON	And that's why I've come forward with, for example, a plan to revitalize coal country, the coalfield communities that have been so hard hit by the changing economy, by the reduction in the use of coal.	0
355	CLINTON	You know, coal miners and their families who helped turn on the lights and power our factories for generations are now wondering, has our country forgotten us?	0
356	CLINTON	Do people not care about all of our sacrifice?	0
357	CLINTON	And I'm going to do everything I can to address distressed communities, whether they are communities of color, whether they are white communities, whether they are in any part of our country.	0
358	CLINTON	I particularly appreciate the proposal that Congressman Jim Clyburn has — the 10-20-30 proposal — to try to spend more federal dollars in communities with persistent generational poverty.	0
359	CLINTON	And you know what?	0
360	CLINTON	If you look at the numbers, there are actually as many, if not more white communities that are truly being left behind and left out.	0
361	CLINTON	So, yes, I do think it would be a terrible oversight not to try to address the very real problems that white Americans — particularly those without a lot of education whose jobs have — you know, no longer provided them or even no longer present in their communities, because we have to focus where the real hurt is.	0
362	CLINTON	And that's why, as president, I will look at communities that need special help and try to deliver that.	0
363	SYSTEM	[ applause ]	0
364	IFILL	Senator — Senator, I want you to respond to that, but I also want you to — am I wrong?	0
365	IFILL	Is it even right to be describing this as a matter of race?	0
366	SANDERS	Yeah, you can, because African-Americans and Latinos not only face the general economic crises of low wages, and high unemployment, and poor educational opportunities, but they face other problems, as well.	0
367	SANDERS	So, yes, we can talk about it as a racial issue.	0
368	SANDERS	But it is a general economic issue.	0
369	SANDERS	And here's what the economic issue is.	0
370	SANDERS	The wages that high school graduates receive today are significantly less, whether you are white or black, than they used to be.	0
371	SANDERS	Why is that?	0
372	SANDERS	Because of a series of disastrous trade policies which have allowed corporate America through NAFTA and Permanent Normal Trade Relations with China, Secretary Clinton and I disagree on those issues.	0
373	SANDERS	But view is those trade policies have enabled corporate America to shut down in this country, throw millions of people out on the street.	0
374	SANDERS	Now no one thinks that working in the factory is the greatest job in the world.	0
375	SANDERS	But you know what, you can make a middle class wage, you have decent health care, decent benefits.	0
376	SANDERS	You once had a pension.	0
377	SANDERS	Those jobs, in many cases, are now gone.	0
378	SANDERS	They're off to China.	0
379	SANDERS	Now you are a worker, white worker, black worker, who had a decent job, that manufacturing job is gone.	0
380	SANDERS	What have you got now?	0
381	SANDERS	You are working at McDonald's?	0
382	SANDERS	That is why there is massive despair all over this country.	0
383	SANDERS	People have worked their entire lives.	0
384	SANDERS	They're making a half, two-thirds what they used to make.	0
385	SANDERS	Their kids are having a hard time finding any work at all.	0
386	SANDERS	And that's why this study, which shows that if you can believe it today, for white working class people between 45 and 54, life expectancy is actually going down.	0
387	SANDERS	Suicide, alcoholism, drugs, that's why we need to start paying attention to the needs of working families in this country, and not just a handful of billionaires who have enormous economic and political power.	0
388	SYSTEM	[ applause ]	0
389	WOODRUFF	Thank you.	0
390	WOODRUFF	Senator Sanders, one of the causes of anxiety for working class Americans is connected to immigrants.	0
391	WOODRUFF	President Obama, as you know, has issued executive actions to permit some 5 million undocumented immigrants who are living now in the United States to come out of the shadows without fear of deportation to get work permits.	0
392	WOODRUFF	Would you go further than that?	0
393	WOODRUFF	And if so, how specifically would you do it?	0
394	WOODRUFF	Should an undocumented family watching this debate tonight, say, in Nevada, rest easy, not fear of further deportations under a Sanders presidency?	0
395	SANDERS	The answer is yes.	0
396	SANDERS	We've got 11 million undocumented people in this country.	0
397	SANDERS	I have talked to some of the young kids with tears rolling down their cheeks, are scared to death that today they may or their parents may be deported.	0
398	SANDERS	I believe that we have got to pass comprehensive immigration reform, something that I strongly supported.	0
399	SANDERS	I believe that we have got to move toward a path toward citizenship.	0
400	SANDERS	I agree with President Obama who used executive orders to protect families because the Congress, the House was unable or refused to act.	0
401	SANDERS	And in fact I would go further.	0
402	SANDERS	What would motivate me and what would be the guiding light for me in terms of immigration reform, Judy, is to bring families together, not divide them up.	0
403	SANDERS	And let me say this also.	0
404	SANDERS	Somebody who is very fond of the president, agrees with him most of the time, I disagree with his recent deportation policies.	0
405	SANDERS	And I would not support those.	0
406	SANDERS	Bottom line is a path towards citizenship for 11 million undocumented people, if Congress doesn't do the right thing, we use the executive orders of the president.	0
407	SYSTEM	[ applause ]	0
408	CLINTON	I strongly support the president's executive actions.	0
409	CLINTON	I hope the Supreme Court upholds them.	0
410	CLINTON	I think there is constitutional and legal authority for the president to have done what he did.	0
411	CLINTON	I am against the raids.	0
412	CLINTON	I'm against the kind of inhumane treatment that is now being visited upon families, waking them up in the middle of the night, rounding them up.	0
413	CLINTON	We should be deporting criminals, not hardworking immigrant families who do the very best they can and often are keeping economies going in many places in our country.	0
414	CLINTON	I'm a strong supporter of comprehensive immigration reform.	0
415	CLINTON	Have been ever since I was in the Senate.	0
416	CLINTON	I was one of the original sponsors of the DREAM Act.	0
417	CLINTON	I voted for comprehensive immigration reform in 2007.	0
418	CLINTON	Senator Sanders voted against it at that time.	0
419	CLINTON	Because I think we have to get to comprehensive immigration reform with a path to citizenship.	0
420	CLINTON	And as president I would expand enormous energy, literally call every member of Congress that I thought I could persuade.	0
421	CLINTON	Hopefully after the 2016 election, some of the Republicans will come to their senses and realize we are not going to deport 11 or 12 million people in this country.	0
422	CLINTON	And they will work with me to get comprehensive immigration reform.	0
423	SYSTEM	[ applause ]	0
424	SANDERS	Secretary Clinton, I do have a disagreement here.	0
425	SANDERS	If my memory is correct, I think when we saw children coming from these horrendous, horrendously violent areas of Honduras and neighboring countries, people who are fleeing drug violence and cartel violence, I thought it was a good idea to allow those children to stay in this country.	0
426	SANDERS	That was not, as I understand it, the secretary's position.	0
427	SANDERS	In terms of 2007 immigration reform, yeah, I did vote against it.	0
428	SANDERS	I voted against it because the Southern Poverty Law Center, among other groups, said that the guest-worker programs that were embedded in this agreement were akin to slavery.	0
429	SANDERS	Akin to slavery, where people came into this country to do guest work were abused, were exploited, and if they stood up for their rights, they'd be thrown out of this country.	0
430	SANDERS	So it wasn't just me who opposed it.	0
431	SANDERS	It was LULAC, one of the large Latino organizations in this country.	0
432	SANDERS	It was the AFL-CIO.	0
433	SANDERS	It was some of the most progressive members of the United States Congress who opposed it for that reason.	0
434	SANDERS	But we are where we are right now.	0
435	SANDERS	And where we are right now is we have got to stand up to the Trumps of the world who are trying to divide us up.	0
436	SANDERS	What we have to do right now is bring our people together and understand that we must provide a path towards citizenship for 11 million undocumented people.	0
437	CLINTON	Two quick responses.	0
438	CLINTON	One, with respect to the Central American children, I made it very clear that those children needed to be processed appropriately, but we also had to send a message to families and communities in Central America not to send their children on this dangerous journey in the hands of smugglers.	0
439	CLINTON	I've also called for the end of family detention, for the end of privately-run detention centers, along with private prisons, which I think are really against the common good and the rule of law.	0
440	CLINTON	And with respect to the 2007 bill, this was Ted Kennedy's bill.	0
441	CLINTON	And I think Ted Kennedy had a very clear idea about what needed to be done.	0
442	CLINTON	And I was proud to stand with him and support it.	0
443	SYSTEM	[ applause ]	0
444	WOODRUFF	I'd like...	0
445	SANDERS	Well, let me just respond.	0
446	SANDERS	I worked with Ted Kennedy.	0
447	SANDERS	He was the chairman of my committee.	0
448	SANDERS	And I loved Ted Kennedy.	0
449	SANDERS	But on this issue, when you have one of the large Latino organizations in America saying vote no, and you have the AFL-CIO saying vote no, and you have leading progressive Democrats, in fact, voting no, I don't apologize for that vote.	0
450	SANDERS	But in terms of the children, I don't know to whom you're sending a message.	0
451	SANDERS	Who are you sending a message to?	0
452	SANDERS	These are children who are leaving countries and neighborhoods where their lives are at stake.	0
453	SANDERS	That was the fact.	0
454	SANDERS	I don't think we use them to send a message.	0
455	SANDERS	I think we welcome them into this country and do the best we can to help them get their lives together.	0
456	SYSTEM	[ applause ]	0
457	CLINTON	Well, that just wasn't — that just wasn't the fact, Senator.	0
458	CLINTON	The fact is that there was a great effort made by the Obama administration and others to really send a clear message, because we knew that so many of these children were being abused, being treated terribly while they tried to get to our border.	0
459	CLINTON	So we have a disagreement on this.	0
460	CLINTON	I think now what I've called for is counsel for every child so that no child has to face any kind of process without someone who speaks and advocates for that child so that the right decision hopefully can be made.	0
461	SYSTEM	[ applause ]	0
462	IFILL	If you would allow me now to move on, we've been talking about children.	0
463	IFILL	I want to talk about seniors.	0
464	IFILL	That takes us to our second Facebook question from Farheen Hakeem, who writes, "My father" — she's a 40-year-old woman who works for a nonprofit here in Milwaukee.	0
465	IFILL	And she writes, "My father gets just $16 in food assistance per month as part of Medicaid's family community program in Milwaukee County for low-income seniors.	0
466	IFILL	How will you as president work to ensure low-income seniors get their basic needs met?"	0
467	IFILL	Start with you, Senator Sanders.	0
468	SANDERS	OK. You know, you judge a nation not by the number of millionaires and billionaires it has, but by how you treat, we treat, the most vulnerable and fragile people in our nation.	0
469	SANDERS	And by those standards, we're not doing particularly well.	0
470	SANDERS	We have the highest rate of childhood poverty among almost any major country on Earth.	1
471	SANDERS	And in terms of seniors, there are millions of seniors — and I've talked to them in my state of Vermont and all over this country — who are trying to get by on $11,000, $12,000, $13,000 a year Social Security.	0
472	SANDERS	And you know what?	0
473	SANDERS	You do the arithmetic.	0
474	SANDERS	You can't get by on $11,000, $12,000, $13,000 a year.	0
475	SANDERS	And here's an area where Secretary Clinton and I believe we have a difference.	0
476	SANDERS	I have long supported the proposition that we should lift the cap on taxable income coming into the Social Security Trust Fund, starting at $250,000.	0
477	SYSTEM	[ applause ]	0
478	SANDERS	And when we — and when we do that, we don't do what the Republicans want, which is to cut Social Security.	0
479	SANDERS	We do what the American people want, to expand Social Security by $1,300 a year for people under $16,000, and we extend the life of Social Security for 58 years.	0
480	SANDERS	Yes, the wealthiest people, the top 1.5 percent, will pay more in taxes.	0
481	SANDERS	But a great nation like ours should not be in a position where elderly people are cutting their pills in half, where they don't have decent nutrition, where they can't heat their homes in the wintertime.	0
482	SANDERS	That is not what America should be about.	0
483	SANDERS	If elected president, I will do everything I can to expand Social Security benefits, not just for seniors, but for disabled veterans, as well.	0
484	SYSTEM	[ applause ]	0
485	CLINTON	I think — I think it's fair to say we don't have a disagreement.	0
486	CLINTON	We both believe there has to be more money going into the Social Security system.	0
487	CLINTON	I've said I'm looking at a couple of different ways, one which you mentioned, Senator, but also trying to expand the existing tax to passive income that wealthy people have so that we do get more revenue into the Social Security Trust Fund.	0
488	CLINTON	I have a slightly different approach, though, about what we should do with that initially.	0
489	CLINTON	First, rather than expand benefits for everyone, I do want to take care of low-income seniors who worked at low-wage jobs.	0
490	CLINTON	I want to take care of women.	0
491	CLINTON	When the Social Security program was started in the 1930s, not very many women worked.	0
492	CLINTON	And women have been disadvantaged ever since.	0
493	CLINTON	They do not get any credit for their care-taking responsibilities.	0
494	CLINTON	And the people who are often the most hard-hit are widows, because when their spouse dies, they can lose up to one-half of their Social Security monthly payment.	0
495	CLINTON	So we have no disagreement about the need to buttress Social Security, get more revenue into the program.	0
496	CLINTON	But I want to start by helping those people who are most at risk, the ones who, yes, are cutting their pills in half, who don't believe they can make the rent, who are worried about what comes next for them.	0
497	SANDERS	In all due respect...	0
498	SYSTEM	[ applause ]	0
499	SANDERS	...In all due respect, Secretary Clinton, a lot of the progressive groups, the online groups have really asked you a simple question.	0
500	SANDERS	Are you coming onboard a proposal?	0
501	SANDERS	And what is that proposal?	0
502	SANDERS	Now, the proposal that I have outlined, you know, should be familiar to you, because it is what essentially Barack Obama campaigned on in 2008.	0
503	SANDERS	You opposed him then.	0
504	SANDERS	I would hope that you would come onboard and say that this is the simple and straightforward thing to do.	0
505	SANDERS	We're asking the top 1.5 percent, including passive income, to start paying a little bit more so that the elderly and disabled vets in this country can live with security and dignity.	0
506	SANDERS	I hope you will make a decision soon on this.	0
507	CLINTON	Well, Senator, look, I think we're in vigorous agreement here.	0
508	CLINTON	We both want to get more revenue in.	0
509	CLINTON	I have yet to see a proposal that you're describing that the — raising the cap would apply to passive income.	0
510	CLINTON	That has not been...	0
511	SANDERS	That's my bill.	0
512	SANDERS	Check it out.	0
513	CLINTON	Well, that has not been a part of most of the proposals that I've seen.	0
514	CLINTON	I'm interested in making sure we get the maximum amount of revenue from those who can well afford to provide it.	0
515	CLINTON	So I'm going to come up with the best way forward.	0
516	CLINTON	We're going to end up in the same place.	0
517	CLINTON	We're going to get more revenue.	0
518	CLINTON	I'm going to prioritize those recipients who need the most help first.	0
519	SYSTEM	[ applause ]	0
520	WOODRUFF	We're going to move on.	0
521	WOODRUFF	Secretary Clinton, your campaign has recently ramped up criticism of Senator Sanders for attending Democratic Party fundraisers from which you say he benefited.	0
522	WOODRUFF	But nearly half of your financial sector donations appear to come from just two wealthy financiers, George Soros and Donald Sussman, for a total of about $10 million.	0
523	WOODRUFF	You have said that there's no quid pro quo involved.	0
524	WOODRUFF	Is that also true of the donations that wealthy Republicans give to Republican candidates, contributors including the Koch Brothers?	0
525	CLINTON	I can't speak for the Koch Brothers, you're referring to a Super PAC that we don't coordinate with, that was set up to support President Obama, that has now decided that they want to support me.	0
526	CLINTON	They are the ones who should respond to any questions.	0
527	CLINTON	Let's talk about our campaigns.	0
528	CLINTON	I'm very proud of the fact that we have more than 750 thousand donors, and the vast majority of them are giving small contributions.	0
529	CLINTON	So, I'm proud of Senator Sanders, and his supporters.	0
530	CLINTON	I think it's great that Senator Sanders, President Obama and I have more donors than any three people who have every run, certainly on the Democratic side.	0
531	CLINTON	That's the way it should be, and I'm going to continue to reach out to thank all my online contributors for everything they are doing for me, to encourage them and help me do more just as Senator Sanders is.	0
532	CLINTON	I think that is the real key here.	0
533	CLINTON	We both have a lot of small donors.	0
534	CLINTON	I think that sets us apart from a lot of what's happening right now on the Republican side.	0
535	CLINTON	The Koch Brothers have a very clear political agenda.	0
536	CLINTON	It is an agenda, in my view, that would do great harm to our country.	0
537	CLINTON	We're going to fight it as hard as we can, and we're going to fight whoever the Republicans nominate who will depend on the Koch Brothers, and others.	0
538	SYSTEM	[ applause ]	0
539	WOODRUFF	I'm asking if Democratic donors are different than Republican donors.	0
540	SANDERS	What we are talking about in reality is a corrupt campaign finance system, that's what we're talking about.	0
541	SANDERS	We have to be honest about it.	0
542	SANDERS	It is undermining American democracy.	0
543	SANDERS	When extraordinarily wealthy people make very large contributions to Super PACs, and in many cases in this campaign, Super PACs have raised more money than individual candidates have, OK?	0
544	SANDERS	We had a decision to make early on, do we do a Super PAC?	0
545	SANDERS	And, we said no.	0
546	SANDERS	We don't represent Wall Street, we don't represent the billionaire class, so it ends up I'm the only candidate up here of the many candidates who has no Super PAC.	0
547	SANDERS	But, what we did is we said to the working families of this country, look, we know things are tough, but if you want to help us go beyond establishment politics, and establishment economics, send us something.	0
548	SANDERS	And, it turns out that up until — and this has blown me away, never in a million years would I have believed that I would be standing here tonight telling you that we have received three and a half million individual contributions from well over a million people.	0
549	SANDERS	Now, Secretary Clinton's Super PAC, as I understand it, received $25 million dollars last reporting period, $15 million dollars from Wall Street.	0
550	SANDERS	Our average contribution is $27 dollars, I'm very proud of that.	0
551	SYSTEM	[ applause ]	0
552	IFILL	Senator Sanders, are you saying...	0
553	CLINTON	We are mixing apples and oranges.	0
554	CLINTON	My 750,000 donors have contributed more than a million and a half donations.	0
555	CLINTON	I'm very proud.	0
556	CLINTON	That, I think, between the two of us demonstrates the strength of the support we have among people who want to see change in our country.	0
557	CLINTON	But, the real issue, I think, that the Senator is injecting into this is that if you had a Super PAC, like President Obama has, which now says it wants to support me.	0
558	CLINTON	It's not my PAC.	0
559	CLINTON	If you take donations from Wall Street, you can't be independent.	0
560	CLINTON	I would just say, I debated then Senator Obama numerous times on stages like this, and he was the recipient of the largest number of Wall Street donations of anybody running on the Democratic side ever.	0
561	CLINTON	Now, when it mattered, he stood up and took on Wall Street.	0
562	CLINTON	He pushed through, and he passed the Dodd-Frank regulation, the toughest regulations since the 1930's.	0
563	CLINTON	So, let's not in anyway imply here that either President Obama or myself, would in anyway not take on any vested interested, whether it's Wall Street, or drug companies, or insurance companies, or frankly, the gun lobby to stand up to do what's best for the American people.	0
564	SYSTEM	[ applause ]	0
565	SANDERS	The people aren't dumb.	0
566	SANDERS	Why in God's name does Wall Street...	0
567	SYSTEM	[ applause ]	0
568	SANDERS	But let's not — but let's not — let's not insult — let's not insult the intelligence of the American people.	0
569	SANDERS	People aren't dumb.	0
570	SANDERS	Why in God's name does Wall Street make huge campaign contributions?	0
571	SANDERS	I guess just for the fun of it; they want to throw money around.	0
572	SYSTEM	[ laughter ]	0
573	SANDERS	Why does the pharmaceutical industry make huge campaign contributions?	0
574	SANDERS	Any connection maybe to the fact that our people pay the highest prices in the world for prescription drugs?	0
575	SANDERS	Why does the fossil fuel industry pay — spend huge amounts of money on campaign contributions?	0
576	SANDERS	Any connection to the fact that not one Republican candidate for president thinks and agrees with the scientific community that climate change is real and that we have got to transform our energy system?	0
577	SYSTEM	[ applause ]	0
578	SANDERS	And when we talk about Wall Street, let's talk about Wall Street.	0
579	SANDERS	I voted for Dodd-Frank, got an important amendment in it.	0
580	SANDERS	In my view, it doesn't go anywhere near far enough.	0
581	SANDERS	But when we talk about Wall Street, you have Wall Street and major banks have paid $200 billion in fines since the great crash.	0
582	SANDERS	No Wall Street executive has been prosecuted.	0
583	SYSTEM	[ applause ]	0
584	CLINTON	Well, let's just — let's just follow up on this, because, you know, I've made it very clear that no bank is too big to fail, no executive too powerful to jail, and because of Dodd-Frank, we now have in law a process that the president, the Federal Reserve, and others can use if any bank poses a systemic risk.	0
585	CLINTON	I think that's a major accomplishment.	0
586	CLINTON	I agree, however, it doesn't go far enough, because what it focuses on are the big banks, which Senator Sanders has talked about a lot, for good reason.	0
587	CLINTON	I go further in the plan that I've proposed, which has been called the toughest, most effective, comprehensive plan for reining in the other risks that the financial system could face.	0
588	CLINTON	It was an investment bank, Lehman Brothers, that contributed to our collapse.	0
589	CLINTON	It was a big insurance company, AIG.	0
590	CLINTON	It was Countrywide Mortgage.	0
591	CLINTON	My plan would sweep all of them into a regulatory framework so we can try to get ahead of what the next problems might be.	0
592	CLINTON	And I believe that not only Barney Frank, Paul Krugman, and others, have said that what I have proposed is the most effective.	0
593	CLINTON	It goes in the right direction.	0
594	CLINTON	We have Dodd-Frank.	0
595	CLINTON	We can use it to break up the banks, if that's appropriate.	0
596	CLINTON	But let's not kid ourselves.	0
597	CLINTON	As we speak, there are new problems on the horizon.	0
598	CLINTON	I want to get ahead of those, and that's why I've proposed a much more comprehensive approach to deal with all of these...[	0
599	CLINTON	crosstalk ]	0
600	SYSTEM	[ applause ]	0
601	WOODRUFF	We have to go to a break.	0
602	WOODRUFF	We...	0
603	SANDERS	Let me, you know, again, respectfully disagree with Secretary Clinton here.	0
604	SANDERS	When you have three out of the four largest financial institutions in this country bigger today than they were when we bailed them out because they were too big to fail, when you have six financial institutions having assets equivalent to 58 percent of the GDP of America, while issuing two-thirds of the credit cards and a third of the mortgages, look, I think if Teddy Roosevelt were alive today, that great trust-buster would have said break them up.	0
605	SANDERS	I think he would have been right.	0
606	SANDERS	I think he would have said bring back a 21st-century Glass-Steagall legislation.	0
607	SANDERS	I think that would have been right, as well.	0
608	SANDERS	That's my view.	0
609	SYSTEM	[ applause ]	0
610	WOODRUFF	All right.	0
611	WOODRUFF	Thank you both.	0
612	WOODRUFF	It is time for a break.	0
613	WOODRUFF	And when we come back, we're going to turn to some new topics, including how these candidates will keep America safe.	0
614	IFILL	There's a lot more to come in just a few minutes.	0
615	IFILL	Stay with us for more of the PBS NewsHour Democratic Debate.	0
616	SYSTEM	[ commercial break ]	0
617	WOODRUFF	Welcome back to the Democratic presidential debate.	0
618	WOODRUFF	Before we return to our questions, we have a follow-up question from our Facebook group.	0
619	WOODRUFF	And it is to Senator Sanders.	0
620	WOODRUFF	Senator, it comes from Bill Corfield.	0
621	WOODRUFF	He is a 55-year-old musician from Troy, Ohio.	0
622	WOODRUFF	And he asks: "Are there any areas of government you would like to reduce?"	0
623	SANDERS	Hey, I'm in the United States Senate, and anyone who doesn't think that there is an enormous amount of waste and inefficiency and bureaucracy throughout government would be very, very mistaken.	0
624	SANDERS	I believe in government, but I believe in efficient government, not wasteful government.	0
625	IFILL	How about you, Senator Clinton — Secretary Clinton?	0
626	CLINTON	Absolutely.	0
627	CLINTON	And, you know, there are a number of programs that I think are duplicative and redundant and not producing the results that people deserve.	0
628	CLINTON	There are a lot of training programs and education programs that I think can be streamlined and put into a much better format so that if we do continue them they can be more useful, in public schools, community colleges, and colleges and universities.	0
629	CLINTON	I would like to take a hard look at every part of the federal government and really do the kind of analysis that would rebuild some confidence in people that we're taking a hard look about what we have, you know, and what we don't need anymore.	0
630	CLINTON	And that's what I intend to do.	0
631	SANDERS	If I could just answer that, we have also got to take a look at the waste and inefficiencies in the Department of Defense, which is the one major agency of government that has not been able to be audited.	0
632	SANDERS	And I have the feeling you're going to find a lot of cost overruns there and a lot of waste and duplicative activities.	0
633	SYSTEM	[ applause ]	0
634	IFILL	We spent the first part of this debate talking about domestic insecurity.	0
635	IFILL	The second part, we want to talk about our foreign policy insecurities.	0
636	IFILL	And we want to start with a question for you, Secretary Clinton, about America's role in the world.	0
637	IFILL	Americans are becoming increasingly worried that attacks abroad are coming home, that they already are, in fact, here.	0
638	IFILL	According to exit polls from last week, from earlier this week, more than two-thirds of Democrats in New Hampshire are concerned about sending their children to fight in wars they can't win.	0
639	IFILL	They fret that the next attack is just around the corner and we are not ready.	0
640	IFILL	Are we?	0
641	CLINTON	Look, I think we are readier than we used to be, but it's a constant effort that has to be undertaken to make sure we are as ready as we need to be.	0
642	CLINTON	We have made a lot of improvements in our domestic security since 9/11, and we have been able to foil and prevent attacks, yet we see the terrible attack in San Bernardino and know that we haven't done enough.	0
643	CLINTON	So we have to go after this both abroad and at home.	0
644	CLINTON	We have to go after terrorist networks, predominantly ISIS — that's not the only one, but let's focus on that for a minute.	0
645	CLINTON	We have to lead a coalition that will take back territory from ISIS.	0
646	CLINTON	That is principally an American-led air campaign that we are now engaged in.	0
647	CLINTON	We have to support the fighters on the ground, principally the Arabs and the Kurds who are willing to stand up and take territory back from Raqqa to Ramadi.	0
648	CLINTON	We have to continue to work with the Iraqi army so that they are better prepared to advance on some of the other strongholds inside Iraq, like Mosul, when they are able to do so.	0
649	CLINTON	And we have to cut off the flow of foreign funding and foreign fighters.	0
650	CLINTON	And we have to take on ISIS online.	0
651	CLINTON	They are a sophisticated purveyor of propaganda, a celebrator of violence, an instigator of attacks using their online presence.	0
652	CLINTON	Here at home, we've got to do a better job coordinating between federal, state, and local law enforcement.	0
653	CLINTON	We need the best possible intelligence not only from our own sources, but from sources overseas, that can be a real-time fusion effort to get information where it's needed.	0
654	CLINTON	But the final thing I want to say about this is the following.	0
655	CLINTON	You know, after 9/11, one of the efforts that we did in New York was if you see something or hear something suspicious, report it.	0
656	CLINTON	And we need to do that throughout the country.	0
657	CLINTON	But we need to understand that American Muslims are on the front line of our defense.	0
658	CLINTON	They are more likely to know what's happening in their families and their communities, and they need to feel not just invited, but welcomed within the American society.	0
659	CLINTON	So when somebody like Donald Trump and others...	0
660	SYSTEM	[ applause ]	0
661	CLINTON	...stirs up the demagoguery against American Muslims, that hurts us at home.	0
662	CLINTON	It's not only offensive; it's dangerous.	0
663	CLINTON	And the same goes for overseas, where we have to put together a coalition of Muslim nations.	0
664	CLINTON	I know how to do that.	0
665	CLINTON	I put together the coalition that imposed the sanctions on Iran that got us to the negotiating table to put a lid on their nuclear weapons program.	0
666	SYSTEM	[ applause ]	0
667	CLINTON	And you don't go tell Muslim nations you want them to be part of a coalition when you have a leading candidate for president of the United States who insults their religion.	0
668	CLINTON	So this has to be looked at overall, and we have to go at it from every possible angle.	0
669	IFILL	Senator Sanders...	0
670	SANDERS	Let me — let me just say this.	0
671	SANDERS	What a President of the United States has got to do and what is his or her major, I think, responsibility is to, a, make certain that we keep our people safe, that we work with allies around the world to protect democratic values, that we do all that we can to create a world of peace and prosperity.	0
672	SANDERS	I voted against the war in Iraq because I listened very carefully to what President Bush and Vice President Cheney had to say and I didn't believe them.	0
673	SANDERS	And if you go to my Web site,berniesanders.com, what you find is not only going to help lead the opposition to that war, but much of what I feared would happen when I spoke on the floor of the House, in fact, did happen in terms of the instability that occurred.	0
674	SANDERS	Now I think an area in kind of a vague way, or not so vague, where Secretary Clinton and I disagree is the area of regime change.	0
675	SANDERS	Look, the truth is that a powerful nation like the United States, certainly working with our allies, we can overthrow dictators all over the world.	0
676	SANDERS	And God only knows Saddam Hussein was a brutal dictator.	0
677	SANDERS	We could overthrow Assad tomorrow if we wanted to.	0
678	SANDERS	We got rid of Gadhafi.	0
679	SANDERS	But the point about foreign policy is not just to know that you can overthrow a terrible dictator, it's to understand what happens the day after.	0
680	SANDERS	And in Libya, for example, the United States, Secretary Clinton, as secretary of state, working with some other countries, did get rid of a terrible dictator named Gadhafi.	0
681	SANDERS	But what happened is a political vacuum developed.	0
682	SANDERS	ISIS came in, and now occupies significant territory in Libya, and is now prepared, unless we stop them, to have a terrorist foothold.	0
683	SANDERS	But this is nothing new.	0
684	SANDERS	This has gone on 50 or 60 years where the United States has been involved in overthrowing governments.	0
685	SANDERS	Mossadegh back in 1953.	0
686	SANDERS	Nobody knows who Mossadegh was, democratically-elected prime minister of Iran.	0
687	SANDERS	He was overthrown by British and American interests because he threatened oil interests of the British.	0
688	SANDERS	And as a result of that, the shah of Iran came in, terrible dictator.	0
689	SANDERS	The result of that, you had the Iranian Revolution coming in, and that is where we are today.	0
690	SANDERS	Unintended consequences.	0
691	SANDERS	So I believe as president I will look very carefully about unintended consequences.	0
692	SANDERS	I will do everything I can to make certain that the United States and our brave men and women in the military do not get bogged down in perpetual warfare in the Middle East.	0
693	SYSTEM	[ applause ]	0
694	CLINTON	If I could just respond.	0
695	CLINTON	Two points.	0
696	CLINTON	One, Senator Sanders voted in 1998 on what I think is fair to call a regime change resolution with respect to Iraq, calling for the end of Saddam Hussein's regime.	0
697	CLINTON	He voted in favor of regime change with Libya, voted in favor of the Security Council being an active participate in setting the parameters for what we would do, which of course we followed through on.	0
698	CLINTON	I do not believe a vote in 2002 is a plan to defeat ISIS in 2016.	0
699	CLINTON	It's very important we focus on the threats we face today, and that we understand the complicated and dangerous world we are in.	0
700	CLINTON	When people go to vote in primaries or caucuses, they are voting not only for the president, they are voting for the commander-in-chief.	0
701	CLINTON	And it's important that people really look hard at what the threats and dangers we face are, and who is best prepared for dealing with them.	0
702	CLINTON	As we all remember, Senator Obama, when he ran against me, was against the war in Iraq.	0
703	CLINTON	And yet when he won, he turned to me, trusting my judgment, my experience, to become secretary of state.	0
704	CLINTON	I was very honored to be asked to do that and very honored to serve with him those first four years.	0
705	SYSTEM	[ applause ]	0
706	SANDERS	Judy, if I can, there is no question, Secretary Clinton and I are friends, and I have a lot of respect for her, that she has enormous experience in foreign affairs.	0
707	SANDERS	Secretary of state for four years.	0
708	SANDERS	You've got a bit of experience, I would imagine.	0
709	SANDERS	But judgment matters as well.	0
710	SANDERS	Judgment matters as well.	0
711	SANDERS	And she and I looked at the same evidence coming from the Bush administration regarding Iraq.	0
712	SANDERS	I lead the opposition against it.	0
713	SANDERS	She voted for it.	0
714	SANDERS	But more importantly, in terms of this Libya resolution that you have noted before, this was a virtually unanimous consent.	0
715	SANDERS	Everybody voted for it wanting to see Libya move toward democracy, of course we all wanted to do that.	0
716	SANDERS	That is very different than talking about specific action for regime change, which I did not support.	0
717	CLINTON	You did support a U.N. Security Council approach, which we did follow up on.	0
718	CLINTON	And, look, I think it's important to look at what the most important counterterrorism judgment of the first four years of the Obama administration was, and that was the very difficult decision as to whether or not to advise the president to go after bin Laden.	0
719	CLINTON	I looked at the evidence.	0
720	CLINTON	I looked at the intelligence.	0
721	CLINTON	I got the briefings.	0
722	CLINTON	I recommended that the president go forward.	0
723	CLINTON	It was a hard choice.	0
724	CLINTON	Not all of his top national security advisors agreed with that.	0
725	CLINTON	And at the end of the day, it was the president's decision.	0
726	CLINTON	So he had to leave the Situation Room after hearing from the small group advising him and he had to make that decision.	0
727	CLINTON	I'm proud that I gave him that advice.	0
728	CLINTON	And I'm very grateful to the brave Navy SEALs who carried out that mission.	0
729	SYSTEM	[ applause ]	0
730	SANDERS	Judy, one area very briefly...	0
731	WOODRUFF	Just a final word.	0
732	SANDERS	Where the secretary and I have a very profound difference, in the last debate — and I believe in her book — very good book, by the way — in her book and in this last debate, she talked about getting the approval or the support or the mentoring of Henry Kissinger.	0
733	SANDERS	Now, I find it rather amazing, because I happen to believe that Henry Kissinger was one of the most destructive secretaries of state in the modern history of this country.	0
734	SYSTEM	[ applause ]	0
735	SANDERS	I am proud to say that Henry Kissinger is not my friend.	0
736	SANDERS	I will not take advice from Henry Kissinger.	0
737	SANDERS	And in fact, Kissinger's actions in Cambodia, when the United States bombed that country, overthrew Prince Sihanouk, created the instability for Pol Pot and the Khmer Rouge to come in, who then butchered some 3 million innocent people, one of the worst genocides in the history of the world.	0
738	SANDERS	So count me in as somebody who will not be listening to Henry Kissinger.	0
739	SYSTEM	[ applause ]	0
740	IFILL	Secretary Clinton?	0
741	CLINTON	Well, I know journalists have asked who you do listen to on foreign policy, and we have yet to know who that is.	0
742	SANDERS	Well, it ain't Henry Kissinger.	0
743	SANDERS	That's for sure.	0
744	CLINTON	That's fine.	0
745	CLINTON	That's fine.	0
746	SYSTEM	[ laughter ]	0
747	CLINTON	You know, I listen to a wide variety of voices that have expertise in various areas.	0
748	CLINTON	I think it is fair to say, whatever the complaints that you want to make about him are, that with respect to China, one of the most challenging relationships we have, his opening up China and his ongoing relationships with the leaders of China is an incredibly useful relationship for the United States of America.	0
749	SYSTEM	[ applause ]	0
750	CLINTON	So if we want to pick and choose — and I certainly do — people I listen to, people I don't listen to, people I listen to for certain areas, then I think we have to be fair and look at the entire world, because it's a big, complicated world out there.	0
751	SANDERS	It is.	0
752	CLINTON	And, yes, people we may disagree with on a number of things may have some insight, may have some relationships that are important for the president to understand in order to best protect the United States.	0
753	SYSTEM	[ applause ]	0
754	SANDERS	I find — I mean, it's just a very different, you know, historical perspective here.	0
755	SANDERS	Kissinger was one of those people during the Vietnam era who talked about the domino theory.	0
756	SANDERS	Not everybody remembers that.	0
757	SANDERS	You do.	0
758	SANDERS	I do.	0
759	SANDERS	The domino theory, you know, if Vietnam goes, China, da, da, da, da, da, da, da.	0
760	SANDERS	That's what he talked about, the great threat of China.	0
761	SANDERS	And then, after the war, this is the guy who, in fact, yes, you're right, he opened up relations with China, and now pushed various type of trade agreements, resulting in American workers losing their jobs as corporations moved to China.	0
762	SANDERS	The terrible, authoritarian, Communist dictatorship he warned us about, now he's urging companies to shut down and move to China.	0
763	SANDERS	Not my kind of guy.	0
764	SYSTEM	[ applause ]	0
765	WOODRUFF	Senator, let me — let me move on to another country with which the U.S. has a complicated relationship, Senator Sanders, and that's Russia.	0
766	WOODRUFF	On the one hand, we're aware that Russia is a country that the United States needs to cooperate with.	0
767	WOODRUFF	Just tonight, Secretary of State John Kerry has announced what appears to be an agreement with the Russians to lead — that could lead toward a ceasefire in Syria, would be the first cessation of conflict in that country, in that civil war in five years, but it comes at a very high price, because not only have all — have we seen the deaths, the removal of so many people, millions of people, we now see the Russians in the last few weeks have bombed in a way that benefits President Assad, has not gone after ISIS.	0
768	WOODRUFF	So my question to you is, when it comes to dealing with Russia, are you prepared — how hard are you prepared to be?	0
769	WOODRUFF	Are you prepared to institute further economic sanctions?	0
770	WOODRUFF	Would you be prepared to move militarily if Russia moves on Eastern Europe?	0
771	WOODRUFF	It seems to me that Russia recently has gotten the better of the United States.	0
772	SANDERS	Well, this is what I would say.	0
773	SANDERS	It is a complicated relationship.	0
774	SANDERS	I congratulate Secretary of State John Kerry and the president for working on this agreement.	0
775	SANDERS	As you've indicated, what is happening in Syria, the number of people, the hundreds of thousands of people who have been killed — men, women, 20,000 children, the people who are forced to flee their own country — their own country — it is unspeakable.	0
776	SANDERS	It is a real horror.	0
777	SANDERS	Now, what I think is that right now we have got to do our best in developing positive relations with Russia.	0
778	SANDERS	But let's be clear: Russia's aggressive actions in the Crimea and in Ukraine have brought about a situation where President Obama and NATO — correctly, I believe — are saying, you know what, we're going to have to beef up our troop level in that part of the world to tell Putin that his aggressiveness is not going to go unmatched, that he is not going to get away with aggressive action.	0
779	SANDERS	I happen to believe that Putin is doing what he is doing because his economy is increasingly in shambles and he's trying to rally his people in support of him.	0
780	SANDERS	But bottom line is: The president is right.	0
781	SANDERS	We have to put more money.	0
782	SANDERS	We have to work with NATO to protect Eastern Europe against any kind of Russian aggression.	0
783	CLINTON	Well, with respect to Syria, I really do appreciate the efforts that Secretary Kerry has made.	0
784	CLINTON	The agreement on humanitarian relief now needs to be implemented, because there are enclaves that are literally filled with starving people throughout Syria.	0
785	CLINTON	The agreement on a cease-fire, though, is something that has to be implemented more quickly than the schedule that the Russians agreed to.	0
786	CLINTON	You know, the Russians wanted to buy time.	0
787	CLINTON	Are they buying time to continue their bombardment on behalf of the Assad regime to further decimate what's left of the opposition, which would be a grave disservice to any kind of eventual cease-fire?	0
788	CLINTON	So I know Secretary Kerry is working extremely hard to try to move that cease-fire up as quickly as possible.	0
789	CLINTON	But I would add this.	0
790	CLINTON	You know, the Security Council finally got around to adopting a resolution.	0
791	CLINTON	At the core of that resolution is an agreement I negotiated in June of 2012 in Geneva, which set forth a cease-fire and moving toward a political resolution, trying to bring the parties at stake in Syria together.	0
792	CLINTON	This is incredibly complicated, because we've got Iran as a big player, in addition to Russia.	0
793	CLINTON	We have Saudi Arabia, Turkey, and others who have very important interests in their view.	0
794	CLINTON	This is one of the areas I've disagreed with Senator Sanders on, who has called for Iranian troops trying to end civil war in Syria, which I think would be a grave mistake.	0
795	CLINTON	Putting Iranian troops right on the border of the Golan right next to Israel would be a nonstarter for me.	0
796	CLINTON	Trying to get Iran and Saudi Arabia to work together, as he has suggested in the past, is equally a nonstarter.	0
797	CLINTON	So let's support what Secretary Kerry and the president are doing, but let's hope that we can accelerate the cease-fire, because I fear that the Russians will continue their bombing, try to do everything they can to destroy what's left of the opposition.	0
798	CLINTON	And remember, the Russians have not gone after ISIS or any of the other terrorist groups.	0
799	CLINTON	So as we get a cease-fire and maybe some humanitarian corridors, that still leaves the terrorist groups on the doorstep of others in Syria, Turkey, Lebanon, Jordan, and the like.	0
800	CLINTON	So we've got some real work to do, and let's try to make sure we actually implement what has been agreed to with the Russians.	0
801	SYSTEM	[ applause ]	0
802	SANDERS	Let me just — just say this.	0
803	SANDERS	For a start, the secretary and I disagree — and I think the president does not agree with her — in terms of the concept of a no-fly zone in Syria.	0
804	SANDERS	I think you do have a humanitarian tragedy there, as I mentioned a moment ago.	0
805	SANDERS	I applaud Secretary Kerry and the president for trying to put together this agreement.	0
806	SANDERS	Let's hope that it holds.	0
807	SANDERS	But furthermore, what we have got to do, I'm sorry, yes, I do believe that we have got to do everything that we can, and it will not happen tomorrow.	0
808	SANDERS	But I do hope that in years to come, just as occurred with Cuba, 10, 20 years ago, people would say, reach normalized relations with Cuba.	0
809	SANDERS	And by the way, I hope we can end the trade embargo with Cuba as well.	0
810	SANDERS	But the idea that we some day maybe have decent relations with Iran, maybe put pressure on them so they end their support for terrorism around the world, yes, that is something I want to achieve.	0
811	SANDERS	And I believe that the best way to do that is to be aggressive, to be principled, but to have the goal of trying to improve relations.	0
812	SANDERS	That's how you make peace in the world.	0
813	SANDERS	You sit down and you work with people, you make demands of people, in this case demanding Iran stop the support of international terrorism.	0
814	SYSTEM	[ applause ]	0
815	CLINTON	Well, I respectfully disagree.	0
816	CLINTON	I think we have achieved a great deal with the Iranian nuclear agreement to put a lid on the Iranian nuclear weapons program.	0
817	CLINTON	That has to be enforced absolutely with consequences for Iran at the slightest deviation from their requirements under the agreement.	0
818	CLINTON	I do not think we should promise or even look toward normalizing relations because we have a lot of other business to get done with Iran.	0
819	CLINTON	Yes, they have to stop being the main state sponsor of terrorism.	0
820	CLINTON	Yes, they have to stop trying to destabilize the Middle East, causing even more chaos.	0
821	CLINTON	Yes, they've got to get out of Syria.	0
822	CLINTON	They've got to quit sponsoring Hezbollah and Hamas.	0
823	CLINTON	They have got to quit trying to ship rockets into Gaza that can be used against Israel.	0
824	CLINTON	We have a lot of work to do with Iran before we ever say that they could move toward normalized relations with us.	0
825	SYSTEM	[ applause ]	0
826	SANDERS	We have a lot of work to do.	0
827	SANDERS	We have a lot of work to do.	0
828	SANDERS	But I recall when Secretary Clinton ran against then-Senator Obama, she was critical of him for suggesting that maybe you want to talk to Iran, that you want to talk to our enemies.	0
829	SANDERS	I have no illusion.	0
830	SANDERS	Of course you are right.	0
831	SANDERS	Iran is sponsoring terrorism in many parts of the world, destabilizing areas.	0
832	SANDERS	Everybody knows that.	0
833	SANDERS	But our goal is, in fact, to try over a period of time to, in fact, deal with our enemies, not just ignore that reality.	0
834	SYSTEM	[ crosstalk ]	0
835	CLINTON	...	0
836	CLINTON	Senator Sanders, from a debate in 2008, quote what I said.	0
837	CLINTON	The question was, would you meet with an adversary without conditions?	0
838	CLINTON	I said no.	0
839	CLINTON	And in fact, in Obama administration, we did not meet with anybody without conditions.	0
840	CLINTON	That is the appropriate approach in order to get the results that you are seeking.	0
841	SYSTEM	[ applause ]	0
842	SANDERS	No, I think the idea was that president — then-Senator Obama was wrong for suggesting that it is a good idea to talk to your opponents.	0
843	SANDERS	It's easier to talk to your friends.	0
844	SANDERS	It's harder to talk to your enemies.	0
845	SANDERS	I think we should do both.	0
846	SYSTEM	[ applause ]	0
847	IFILL	Let me move on.	0
848	IFILL	You have both mentioned the humanitarian tragedies which have been an outgrowth in part of what has happened in Syria and in Libya.	0
849	IFILL	More than a million refugees entered Europe in 2015.	0
850	IFILL	Another 76,000 just last month, that is about 2,000 arrivals every day.	0
851	IFILL	Nearly 400 people have been lost at sea so far this year, crossing the Mediterranean.	0
852	IFILL	And there are reports that 10,000 children are missing.	0
853	IFILL	If we are leaders in this world, where should the U.S. be on this?	0
854	IFILL	What should the United States be doing, Secretary Clinton?	0
855	CLINTON	Well, I was pleased that NATO announced just this week that they're going to start doing patrols in the Mediterranean, in the Aegean, to try to interdict the smugglers, to try to prevent the kind of tragedies that we have seen all too often, also to try to prevent more refugees from coming to the European Union.	0
856	CLINTON	And it's especially significant that they are working with both Turkey and Greece in order to do this.	0
857	CLINTON	With respect to the United States, I think our role in NATO, our support for the E.U., as well as our willingness to take refugees so long as they are thoroughly vetted and that we have confidence from intelligence and other sources that they can come to our country, we should be doing our part.	0
858	CLINTON	And we should back up the recent donors conference to make sure we have made our contribution to try to deal with the enormous cost that these refugees are posing to Turkey and to members of the E.U.	0
859	CLINTON	in particular.	0
860	CLINTON	This is a humanitarian catastrophe.	0
861	CLINTON	There is no other description of it.	0
862	CLINTON	So we do as the United States have to support our friends, our allies in Europe.	0
863	CLINTON	We have to stand with them.	0
864	CLINTON	We have to provide financial support to them.	0
865	CLINTON	We have to provide the NATO support to back up the mission that is going on.	0
866	CLINTON	And we have to take properly vetted refugees ourselves.	0
867	SANDERS	A couple of years ago, I had the opportunity to go on a congressional delegation.	0
868	SANDERS	And I went to one of these Turkish refugee camps right on the border of Syria.	0
869	SANDERS	And what a sad sight that was: Men, women, children forced out of their homes.	0
870	SANDERS	And Turkey, by the way, did a very decent thing, providing what was reasonable housing and conditions for those people.	0
871	SANDERS	It seems to me that given our history as a nation that has been a beacon of hope for the oppressed, for the downtrodden, that I very strongly disagree with those Republican candidates who say, you know what, we've got to turn our backs on women and children who left their home with nothing, nothing at all.	0
872	SANDERS	That is not what America is supposed to be about.	0
873	SANDERS	So I believe that working with Europe — and, by the way, you know, we've got some very wealthy countries there in that part of the world.	0
874	SANDERS	You got Kuwait and you got Qatar and you got Saudi Arabia.	0
875	SANDERS	They have a responsibility, as well.	0
876	SANDERS	But I think this is a worldwide — that the entire world needs to come together to deal with this horrific refugee crisis we're seeing from Syria and Afghanistan, as well.	0
877	SYSTEM	[ applause ]	0
878	WOODRUFF	And we have a final question from our Facebook family.	0
879	WOODRUFF	And it goes to Senator Sanders.	0
880	WOODRUFF	It comes from Robert Andrews.	0
881	WOODRUFF	He's a 40-year-old stay-at-home dad in Dover, Massachusetts.	0
882	WOODRUFF	He says, "The world has seen many great leaders in the course of human history.	0
883	WOODRUFF	Can you name two leaders — one American and one foreign — who would influence your foreign policy decisions?	0
884	WOODRUFF	And why do you see them as — why are they influential?"	0
885	SANDERS	You know, Franklin Delano Roosevelt took the oath of office in 1933 at a time when 25 percent of the American people were unemployed, country was in incredible despair.	0
886	SANDERS	And he stood before the American people and he said, "The only thing we have to fear is fear itself," a profound statement that gave the American people the courage to believe that, yes, we could get out of that terrible depression.	0
887	SANDERS	And then what he did is redefine the role of government.	0
888	SANDERS	You know, you had Herbert Hoover before that saying, no, we got to only worry about the deficit.	0
889	SANDERS	So what if mass unemployment exists?	0
890	SANDERS	So what if children are going hungry?	0
891	SANDERS	That's not the role of the government.	0
892	SANDERS	And when FDR said, "Yeah, it is," that we're going to use all of the resources that we have to create jobs, to build homes, to feed people, to protect the farmers, we are a nation which if we come together there is nothing that we could not accomplish.	0
893	SANDERS	And kind of — that's what I see our campaign is about right now.	0
894	SANDERS	In this particular moment of serious crises, saying to the American people don't give up on the political process.	0
895	SANDERS	don't listen to the Trumps of the world and allowing them to divide us.	0
896	SANDERS	If we reengage and get involved, yeah, we can have health care for all people, we can make public colleges and universities tuition-free.	0
897	SANDERS	We do not have to have massive levels of income and wealth inequality.	0
898	SANDERS	In the same light, as the foreign leader, Winston Churchill's politics were not my politics.	0
899	SANDERS	He was kind of a conservative guy in many respects.	0
900	SANDERS	But nobody can deny that as a wartime leader, he rallied the British people when they stood virtually alone against the Nazi juggernaut and rallied them and eventually won an extraordinary victory.	0
901	SANDERS	Those are two leaders that I admire very much.	0
902	SYSTEM	[ applause ]	0
903	CLINTON	I certainly agree with FDR for all the reasons Senator Sanders said.	0
904	CLINTON	And I agree about the role that he played both in war and in peace on the economy and defeating fascism around the world.	0
905	CLINTON	I would choose Nelson Mandela for his generosity of heart, his understanding of the need for reconciliation.	0
906	CLINTON	But I want to — I want to follow up on something having to do with leadership, because, you know, today Senator Sanders said that President Obama failed the presidential leadership test.	0
907	CLINTON	And this is not the first time that he has criticized President Obama.	0
908	CLINTON	In the past he has called him weak.	0
909	CLINTON	He has called him a disappointment.	1
910	CLINTON	He wrote a forward for a book that basically argued voters should have buyers' remorse when it comes to President Obama's leadership and legacy.	0
911	CLINTON	And I just couldn't agree — disagree more with those kinds of comments.	0
912	CLINTON	You know, from my perspective, maybe because I understand what President Obama inherited, not only the worst financial crisis but the antipathy of the Republicans in Congress, I don't think he gets the credit he deserves for being a president...[	0
913	CLINTON	applause ]...who got us out of that...	0
914	SYSTEM	[ applause ]	0
915	CLINTON	...put us on firm ground, and has sent us into the future.	0
916	CLINTON	And it is a — the kind of criticism that we've heard from Senator Sanders about our president I expect from Republicans.	0
917	CLINTON	I do not expect from someone running for the Democratic nomination to succeed President Obama.	0
918	SANDERS	That is...	0
919	SYSTEM	[ applause ]	0
920	SANDERS	...Madam Secretary, that is a low blow.	0
921	SANDERS	I have worked with President Obama for the last seven years.	0
922	SANDERS	When President Obama came into office we were losing 800,000 jobs a month, 800,000 jobs a month.	0
923	SANDERS	We had a $1.4 trillion deficit.	0
924	SANDERS	And the world's financial system is on the verge of collapse.	0
925	SANDERS	As a result of his efforts and the efforts of Joe Biden against unprecedented, I was there in the Senate, unprecedented Republican obstructionism, we have made enormous progress.	0
926	SYSTEM	[ applause ]	0
927	SANDERS	But you know what?	0
928	SANDERS	Last I heard we lived in a democratic society.	0
929	SANDERS	Last I heard, a United States senator had the right to disagree with the president, including a president who has done such an extraordinary job.	0
930	SANDERS	So I have voiced criticisms.	0
931	SANDERS	You're right.	0
932	SANDERS	Maybe you haven't.	0
933	SANDERS	I have.	0
934	SANDERS	But I think to suggest that I have voiced criticism, this blurb that you talk about, you know what the blurb said?	0
935	SANDERS	The blurb said that the next president of the United States has got to be aggressive in bringing people into the political process.	0
936	SANDERS	That's what I said.	0
937	SANDERS	That is what I believe.	0
938	SYSTEM	[ applause ]	0
939	SANDERS	President Obama and I are friends.	0
940	SANDERS	As you know, he came to Vermont to campaign for me when he was a senator.	0
941	SANDERS	I have worked for his re-election.	0
942	SANDERS	His first election and his re-election.	0
943	SANDERS	But I think it is really unfair to suggest that I have not been supportive of the president.	0
944	SANDERS	I have been a strong ally with him on virtually every issue.	0
945	SANDERS	Do senators have the right to disagree with the president?	0
946	SANDERS	Have you ever disagreed with a president?	0
947	SANDERS	I suspect you may have.	0
948	SYSTEM	[ applause ]	0
949	CLINTON	You know, Senator, what I am concerned about, is not disagreement on issues, saying that this is what I would rather do, I don't agree with the president on that, calling the president weak, calling him a disappointment, calling several times that he should have a primary opponent when he ran for re-election in 2012, you know, I think that goes further than saying we have our disagreements.	0
950	CLINTON	As a senator, yes, I was a senator.	0
951	CLINTON	I understand we can disagree on the path forward.	0
952	CLINTON	But those kinds of personal assessments and charges are ones that I find particularly troubling.	0
953	IFILL	Senator, if you would like respond to — you may respond to that but it is time for closing statements and you can use your time for closing statements to do that.	0
954	SANDERS	Well, one of us ran against Barack Obama.	0
955	SANDERS	I was not that candidate.	0
956	SYSTEM	[ applause ]	0
957	SANDERS	All right, look, this has been a great debate.	0
958	SANDERS	A lot of interesting issues have come together.	0
959	SANDERS	Let me conclude by just saying this.	0
960	SANDERS	There is no president, in my view, not Hillary Clinton, not Bernie Sanders, who has the capability or the power to take on Wall Street, large campaign donors, the corporate media, the big money interests in this country alone.	0
961	SANDERS	This campaign is not just about electing a president.	0
962	SANDERS	What this campaign is about is creating a process for a political revolution in which millions of Americans, working people who have given up on the political process, they don't think anybody hears their pains or their concerns.	0
963	SANDERS	Young people for whom getting involved in politics is as, you know, it's like going to the moon.	0
964	SANDERS	It ain't going to happen.	0
965	SANDERS	Low income people who are not involved in the political process.	0
966	SANDERS	What this campaign is not only about electing someone who has the most progressive agenda, it is about bringing tens of millions of people together to demand that we have a government that represents all of us and not just the 1 percent, who today have so much economic and political power.	0
967	SANDERS	Thank you all very much.	0
968	SYSTEM	[ applause ]	0
969	WOODRUFF	Secretary Clinton?	0
970	CLINTON	You know, we — we agree that we've got to get unaccountable money out of politics.	0
971	CLINTON	We agree that Wall Street should never be allowed to wreck Main Street again.	0
972	CLINTON	But here's the point I want to make tonight.	0
973	CLINTON	I am not a single-issue candidate, and I do not believe we live in a single-issue country.	0
974	CLINTON	I think that a lot of what we have to overcome to break down the barriers that are holding people back, whether it's poison in the water of the children of Flint, or whether it's the poor miners who are being left out and left behind in coal country, or whether it is any other American today who feels somehow put down and oppressed by racism, by sexism, by discrimination against the LGBT community, against the kind of efforts that need to be made to root out all of these barriers, that's what I want to take on.	0
975	CLINTON	And here in Wisconsin, I want to reiterate: We've got to stand up for unions and working people who have done it before...	0
976	SYSTEM	[ applause ]	0
977	CLINTON	...the American middle class, and who are being attacked by ideologues, by demagogues.	0
978	CLINTON	Yes, does Wall Street and big financial interests, along with drug companies, insurance companies, big oil, all of it, have too much influence?	0
979	CLINTON	You're right.	0
980	CLINTON	But if we were to stop that tomorrow, we would still have the indifference, the negligence that we saw in Flint.	0
981	CLINTON	We would still have racism holding people back.	0
982	CLINTON	We would still have sexism preventing women from getting equal pay.	0
983	CLINTON	We would still have LGBT people who get married on Saturday and get fired on Monday.	0
984	CLINTON	And we would still have governors like Scott Walker and others trying to rip out the heart of the middle class by making it impossible to organize and stand up for better wages and working conditions.	0
985	CLINTON	So I'm going to keep talking about tearing down all the barriers that stand in the way of Americans fulfilling their potential, because I don't think our country can live up to its potential unless we give a chance to every single American to live up to theirs.	0
986	SYSTEM	[ applause ]	0
987	IFILL	Thank you.	0
988	IFILL	Thank you Senator Clinton.	0
989	IFILL	Thank you, Senator Sanders.	0
990	IFILL	We also want to thank our partners at Facebook and our hosts here at the University of Wisconsin, Milwaukee.	0
991	SYSTEM	[ applause ]	0
992	WOODRUFF	And we want to thank our audience, our quiet audience here in Helen Bader Concert Hall, and to all of you watching at home.	0
993	WOODRUFF	Thank you all.	0
994	WOODRUFF	Stay tuned for analysis of the debate and the overall race for the Democratic nomination.	0
995	WOODRUFF	That's coming up next here on PBS stations and online atPBS.org/NewsHour.	0
996	IFILL	I'm going to remain here in Milwaukee tomorrow evening for a special edition of Washington Week here on PBS.	0
997	WOODRUFF	And I'm going to be returning to Washington.	0
998	WOODRUFF	I hope you'll join us for the PBS NewsHour tomorrow and every night.	0
999	WOODRUFF	That's it from all of us here in Milwaukee.	0
1000	WOODRUFF	We thank you.	0
1001	IFILL	Good night.	0
1002	SYSTEM	[ applause ]	0